Jay Harris transferring from Valparaiso
By Mark Lazerus on April 24, 2012 11:59 AM | No Comments | No TrackBacks
More to come. Here's the official release.
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Valparaiso men's basketball head coach Bryce Drew announced today that sophomore guard Jay Harris has been granted a release from his commitment to the Crusader men's basketball program and will be transferring.
"Jay has been a great asset to our program, helping us win 45 games over the last two years," said Drew. "We are going to miss Jay, but know he is going to be successful at his future destination. He will always be part of the Valpo family."
Harris appeared in 66 games in his two years with the Crusaders, averaging 6.9 points per game while hitting better than 90% of his free throw attempts. He posted 9.0 ppg while averaging 25 minutes per game in 2011-2012 as a sophomore, shooting 40.3% from the floor.
"I had a great two years at Valparaiso," said Harris. "We had two 20-win seasons and I got to play with a league championship team. Both the coaching staff and the team treated me great, but this decision was best for my family and me. I'm looking forward to my future."
I'm a little surprised by Jay's transfer. I was expecting him to play an increased role the next two years. Are we getting too many G's on our team, giving the impression that some may not have a future?
Not surprised.
Actually Jay was one of "rumored" transfers back before we knew it was Richie and Vuc
I am not shocked either. Jay seemed to cop a serious attitude toward the end of this past season. When he was on, he was great...but if he was off, he was TERRIBLE. There didn't seem to be an in between for him. It seemed like teams were getting into his head.
Maybe that is just me....but with Boggs, Bogan, Buggs, Dority, and Coleman all fighting for guard minutes....I can see why he looked to go somewhere to play. Not a solid enough ball handler for the 1 spot and a bit soft of defense and undersized for the 2 in Horizon League.
Again, just my opinion. Hope he can land somewhere and play for a couple years after the sit out.
^^^ Agreed
Also agreed. Hard to argue, Jay's best position is the 2, although he has the body of a point.
Also not surprised, and not really bothered about this transfer in addition to Edwards/Vucic. Definitely appreciate all that they did for us in the games they played, but believe we have better options available with returning/incoming players. It did seem like Harris would just disappear for about 2/3 of the games we played, and looked very disinterested when his shot was off. I don't doubt that he tried, but his body language was often one of 'I give up today,' and when he forced shots, it was terrible. Best of luck to him in his next school though!!
At only 150-60 pounds, he gets eaten alive by bigger, quicker guards. I'm sure if we looked at the Detroit game again that would be all too evident.
I'm sure that's why the coaching staff landed Dority and Coleman, and Harris saw the writing on the wall.
Good kid, good player, can be a very good shooter and will have a good career somewhere.
A lot of Jay's minutes were at the 1. Assuming Dority is eligible at the end of the 1st semester, Jay will have to scrape for minutes only at the 2. Added to that we will have more options to play bigger line ups than last year, which will likely squeeze more of Jay's minutes. From a team standpoint it would be nice to continue to have Jay available to come in to provide some instant offense (when he's on), but obviously that's a role he's not willing to accept.
Given that the above is largely true...does the timing strike anyone else as strange?
Why not announce earlier (like Richie/Hrvoje) and be more "available", especially if he was so seemingly disgruntled before then? Dance cards are filling up around the country. It would seem to have more options, to declare a month ago would have been the time.
I can't help but feel there is something more to the story, something Lazerus seems to want to get at in his blog, but that Harris won't bite at...
Not to answer my own questions, but--well, Paul Oren might have for me:
http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/harris-leaves-valparaiso/article_6b258e32-8e3d-11e1-9342-001a4bcf887a.html (http://www.nwitimes.com/blogs/sports/valparaiso-university/harris-leaves-valparaiso/article_6b258e32-8e3d-11e1-9342-001a4bcf887a.html)
"the fact that it took this long for the announcement to come means that either Harris didn't really want to go or that he's having a hard time finding a landing spot."
Harris is another one that really isn't that big of a loss. Here is his apparent replacement?
http://valpo.streamlinetechnologies.com/mbasketball/news/2011-12/11727/chadwick-to-join-valpo-mens-basketball-program/ (http://valpo.streamlinetechnologies.com/mbasketball/news/2011-12/11727/chadwick-to-join-valpo-mens-basketball-program/)
I for one am sad to see Jay go. Yeah he did have his moments where he took bad shots and couldn't hit anything, but I really felt like he was due to have a break out year next season (although I thought he would have a breakout season this past season after the performance last year against Iona). I think he was more of a team leader than some realize. He was the one who everyone circled around after the pregame introductions. Not to mention I will also miss seeing all of the different high fives he used to do with everyone. It seemed like he had a different one for everyone on the team (even the team assistants). Best of luck to Jay.
He should've worked a bit more on that jumper instead of those high fives perhaps :-X
Quote from: chipper955 on April 24, 2012, 06:14:39 PMI think he was more of a team leader than some realize.
This is not a criticism of Jay, but a simple fact. He was not a team leader.
Quote from: chef on April 24, 2012, 10:02:32 PM
Quote from: chipper955 on April 24, 2012, 06:14:39 PMI think he was more of a team leader than some realize.
This is not a criticism of Jay, but a simple fact. He was not a team leader.
I agree chef. Leading the dance in the huddle is not really what makes a leader. As you said, it is just a fact.
Quote from: sectionee on April 24, 2012, 09:41:47 PM
He should've worked a bit more on that jumper instead of those high fives perhaps :-X
After a few games his freshman year I said this very thing here and people KILLED me for it lol.
This team is quickly becoming a transfer team, players moving in, players moving out. A clearinghouse, if you will. Perhaps that is the nature of NCAA hoops these days, but if VU is to build a stable program, it seems there needs to be a certain level of stability.
Or...is it just me with too much time on my hands simply over analyzing this?
Perhaps it is just me getting older and more cynical, but are our players beginning to be pushed away? Is this the situation with Harris? It sure seems so. Look at the timing of all these arrivals and departures. Not saying there isnt something wrong with "look, we need to see progress this season or rethink your role on the team", but making the correct calls on recruits to begin with seems the more certain route. I keep thinking of the Cameron Witt situation here and his dismissal from the team.
We tend to get all excited about the new arrivals, but look at the facts...what were their results at their original schools? Most transfer simply due to a lack of playing time.
Perhaps the answer is to reduce the number of scholarships from 13 down to 12. It almost seems as if the 13th is always a transfer in waiting. If you have 12, then your margin of error is greatly reduced.
No doubt there is a tendancy for high schoolers to reach as high as possible when making a selection. The pressure heaped on players to "go D1" results in overall life decisions which are probably not in the students (or school's) best interest.
Just rambling...I hate to see this many transfers.
lowposter
Teams would get by just fine on 12 scholarships. Valpo has done it before. Heck Duke has done it many, many seasons. Most Horizon League teams have had good success with transfers (even Bulter - Green, Campbell and Clarke to name a few). It's the nature of the mid-major.
Quote from: lowposter on April 25, 2012, 08:09:14 AMThis team is quickly becoming a transfer team, players moving in, players moving out.
Valpo has ALWAYS had this problem and always will. Check the transfer lists, other HL teams had 2,3, or even 4 transfers out...and so do the high majors. What REALLY matters is the starting 5...which we return every single one of them...plus we gain, arguably, 2 possibly 3 starting quality players. I see this as Bryce getting the program more on par with his goals and vision. Personally, I see nothing but an upgrade and more aggressive recruiting and more athletic players coming in...makes me excited, not worried. If Rowdy and KVW both transfer, then we can worry
Quote from: MattCarter on April 25, 2012, 09:50:39 AM
Quote from: lowposter on April 25, 2012, 08:09:14 AMThis team is quickly becoming a transfer team, players moving in, players moving out.
Valpo has ALWAYS had this problem and always will. Check the transfer lists, other HL teams had 2,3, or even 4 transfers out...and so do the high majors. What REALLY matters is the starting 5...which we return every single one of them...plus we gain, arguably, 2 possibly 3 starting quality players. I see this as Bryce getting the program more on par with his goals and vision. Personally, I see nothing but an upgrade and more aggressive recruiting and more athletic players coming in...makes me excited, not worried. If Rowdy and KVW both transfer, then we can worry
Before anyone goes off the deep end, according to this article by Seth Davis on SI.com, 40% of D1 players will transfer by the end of their sophomore seasons. (I'm guessing that also includes junior college players as well.)
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/seth_davis/04/20/bo-ryan-transfer/index.html (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/seth_davis/04/20/bo-ryan-transfer/index.html)
It is probably a good thing for VU that the talent is getting so much better that even good players are worried about their playing time. Would we like to have them stay, even at reduced minutes? Sure, but leaving for more minutes is a reasonable choice.
Quote from: valpo95 on April 25, 2012, 12:11:50 PMIt is probably a good thing for VU that the talent is getting so much better that even good players are worried about their playing time. Would we like to have them stay, even at reduced minutes? Sure, but leaving for more minutes is a reasonable choice.
Good point--let's take a minute to let the fact sink in that VALPO had a player transfer to the PAC TWELVE in search of MORE PLAYING TIME. So there.
If 40% of D1 basketball players transfer before the end of their sophomore year....then something is wrong with the system.
It is always difficult to see players leave and I certainly believe the transfer situation has changed over the last several years. My point is that is the past players left because they clearly couldn't cut it and either didn't want to work hard enought to get playing time or they wanted to play more and that meant in general, a lateral move and in some cases a move to a non-D1 school. Chris Halvorsen falls inot this category. He clearly saw that his best place to play was the same spot that Rowdy occupies and they were in the same class. Why he ended up walking on at Minnesota is unclear because clearly it wasn't to get more playing time. Most likely just homesickness or a girl friend--who knows. Another player in this category would be Arden Skoglund as would Vucic.
Now things have changed and I think it probably started with Bryan Bouchie although I'm sure they are others. Here's the difference: guys are now leaving who were getting LOTS of minutes and want to get more! Richie Edwards, Jay Harris, Brandon Wood, DeAndre Haskins and others, I'm sure.
Most recently these changes have allowed other kids who are facing the same issues to transfer in to Valpo and it has been all good. Witness Cory Johnson, Brandon Wood, Bobby Capobianco and the new guards. Valpo95 hit it on the head. The talent level has gotten so much better that the regular rotation is constantly in flux or simply improving. Next year's team will open a lot of eyes. It will be a fun year to be a Crusader fan. :thewave:
Quote from: lowposter on April 25, 2012, 01:00:53 PM
If 40% of D1 basketball players transfer before the end of their sophomore year....then something is wrong with the system.
Not really. All players who are recruited at D1 schools were most likely starters, if not stars, on their high school teams and conferences, some were all-state. When they get to college, they all hope to be starters there as well. However, many do not become starters and realize by their sophomore year they might not start the next two years either. Some even find their game minutes as bench players are somewhat limited since most teams have 8-man rotations at best.
Add to that the off-court discoveries at a college during one's first couple of years--which could include difficulties in the classroom or in community circles or merely dealing with the climate, geography, social life (or lack of) and homesickness in some cases--as well as the fact that we're talking about 20-year-old kids who might be impatient or curious about other places.
Moreover, there is some excitement and ego boosting about going through the transfer process, being courted by other schools and wanted all over again. These kids even see this in the NBA stars, their role models, who regularly explore free agency or demand trades. You can even add some college coaches who look to get out of contracts with their schools to go elsewhere.
Given all that, I would expect a fair number of disappointments and changed minds leading to curiosity and seeking something new, especially in an electronic age which daily includes so many quick shifts and searches for immediate gratification. Consequently, I am not surprised at all by the transfer rate.
valpopal hit it right on the head, though didn't spell it out as obviously, but a lot of the freshmen were starters and stars on their high school and AAU teams, and expect to have that same result at the D-I they are at. Unfortunately, too many of them come in underdeveloped in the body structure or basketball acumen they should have for the D-I NCAA game. They are also too impressionable based on everything their "posse" and AAU coaches build them up to be. I tend to see some of that build up here for some recruits, when I see "jump out of the gym", "shoots lights out", but yet all of this is based on the "counting" stats of points and rebounds, but we never really see the "intangibles" that go with defensive speed, playing the ball, having that "thinking a play ahead" to consider where the ball is going, so you can get in the path to either deflect or steal the ball. Too often, we worry about height and scoring, and the counting stats are the things that build up a player's bad habits because they want to be the highlight, instead of create a team win with helping the rest of the team be in the game as well.
While we're speaking about transfers and people looking for changes of scenery, here is an interesting and refreshing article about some coaches, including Bryce Drew and Brad Stevens, who recently chose not to make moves to BCS schools with more prestige and larger salaries:
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7853594/coaches-mid-major-programs-spurning-lucrative-opportunities-stay-put-men-college-basketball (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7853594/coaches-mid-major-programs-spurning-lucrative-opportunities-stay-put-men-college-basketball)
Quote from: valpopal on April 25, 2012, 01:29:46 PM
Quote from: lowposter on April 25, 2012, 01:00:53 PM
If 40% of D1 basketball players transfer before the end of their sophomore year....then something is wrong with the system.
Not really. All players who are recruited at D1 schools were most likely starters, if not stars, on their high school teams and conferences, some were all-state. When they get to college, they all hope to be starters there as well. However, many do not become starters and realize by their sophomore year they might not start the next two years either. Some even find their game minutes as bench players are somewhat limited since most teams have 8-man rotations at best.
Add to that the off-court discoveries at a college during one's first couple of years--which could include difficulties in the classroom or in community circles or merely dealing with the climate, geography, social life (or lack of) and homesickness in some cases--as well as the fact that we're talking about 20-year-old kids who might be impatient or curious about other places.
Moreover, there is some excitement and ego boosting about going through the transfer process, being courted by other schools and wanted all over again. These kids even see this in the NBA stars, their role models, who regularly explore free agency or demand trades. You can even add some college coaches who look to get out of contracts with their schools to go elsewhere.
Given all that, I would expect a fair number of disappointments and changed minds leading to curiosity and seeking something new, especially in an electronic age which daily includes so many quick shifts and searches for immediate gratification. Consequently, I am not surprised at all by the transfer rate.
I don't think anything is wrong with the system. I think others on this board have also mentioned the AAU role in transfers and selfish play as a whole in NCAA basketball. I'm not an expert on AAU ball, but from what I've heard, AAU ball emphasizes one-on-one play and scoring, vice team play and defense. The AAU coach is continually selling something, instead of teaching the game. As long as someone is in the kids ears with statements of "you can transfer", "you could do better in a different system", etc., all schools will have problems with transfers.
The really successful AAU programs' play mirrors successful high school or college programs. Very unselfish play with an emphasis on disciplined offensive sets. The defense is a little lax, but normally every shot is challenged, every possession is challenged.
If you have the opportunity, go watch the truly great AAU programs play, such as an Eric Gordon U17. Interchangeable parts, great ball movement, and they play well together. College coaches come to watch how players fit into a system, as much as their individual talents. Are they coachable? Do they find the open man? Can they defend? What is their oncourt demeanor? And obviously...do they have skills.
Yes, there are flaws to the system, but the AAU system has developed due to deficiencies in the HS game.
Now, with all that said...yes, there is often too much advise given (and received) in that network. Often, players end up at D1 schools, simply because they believe they are a D1 talent and do not weight the opportunities that are available at other colleges and universities.
So, my original point about the system's problems (based on 40% transfer rule), is that the players and the colleges are not making good choices early on. It is easy to do.
lowposter
Quote from: vu72 on April 25, 2012, 01:12:02 PMWitness Cory Johnson, Brandon Wood, Bobby Capobianco and the new guards. Valpo95 hit it on the head. The talent level has gotten so much better that the regular rotation is constantly in flux or simply improving. Next year's team will open a lot of eyes. It will be a fun year to be a Crusader fan.
I am still hoping that you are right but the Edwards departure left me concerned and now the Harris departure leaves me even more uncertain about how well we can spring out the starting gate next year. If we are to have a solid shot at an ncaa at-large bid (our current expectation) then we need to bag some big wins early and avoid the embarassing loses.
Worst case, Dority can not play till second semester and Kurth recovers either very slowly or not at all. With the 25.6 minutes that Jay played (mostly at the 2) now gone and with none of the trio of Boggs, Bogan, and Kenney being ideal 2's for what we hope to be a season long top 55 team then we might be expecting more from an untested Jordan Coleman than he is capable of delivering. Now I realize that Broekhoff should slide over to the 3 and pick up at least some of Jays vacated guard minutes but I am now concerned that the 2 spot might at least in the early going be our biggest obstacle.
I also find it unfortunate that we are having so many transfers. At least we are not hearing anything akin to the Wisconsin and other school scandals concerning transfer restrictions. In regards to Jay Harris, I asked earlier this year in another thread...
QuoteJay Harris was one of the highest rated recruits VU has had in recent years, he will be a junior next year, does the coaching staff effectively challenge him to get stronger and improve defensively so we can finally get him on the floor in a starting spot?
In my opinion this was one of the biggest question marks coming into next year, one that Jay has now answered for us by taking his many talents elsewhere.
Best wishes Jay.
just ducky now brings up a very legitimate point about early season team chemistry.
Quote from: justducky on April 25, 2012, 09:10:03 PM
Quote from: vu72 on April 25, 2012, 01:12:02 PMWitness Cory Johnson, Brandon Wood, Bobby Capobianco and the new guards. Valpo95 hit it on the head. The talent level has gotten so much better that the regular rotation is constantly in flux or simply improving. Next year's team will open a lot of eyes. It will be a fun year to be a Crusader fan.
I am still hoping that you are right but the Edwards departure left me concerned and now the Harris departure leaves me even more uncertain about how well we can spring out the starting gate next year. If we are to have a solid shot at an ncaa at-large bid (our current expectation) then we need to bag some big wins early and avoid the embarassing loses.
Worst case, Dority can not play till second semester and Kurth recovers either very slowly or not at all. With the 25.6 minutes that Jay played (mostly at the 2) now gone and with none of the trio of Boggs, Bogan, and Kenney being ideal 2's for what we hope to be a season long top 55 team then we might be expecting more from an untested Jordan Coleman than he is capable of delivering. Now I realize that Broekhoff should slide over to the 3 and pick up at least some of Jays vacated guard minutes but I am now concerned that the 2 spot might at least in the early going be our biggest obstacle.
This could very well be a problem in the early season, traditionally the time when we would be playing the higher rated out of conference opponents. Let's hope that Bryce can pull the team together early despite the fact that we well might be without the first semester services of Dority.
Good points all. The Dority question is a concern and my guess is the backup point will be Bogan. If Boggs is an example, it will take some time for Dority to get started once eligible. On the other hand the addition of Capo should increase our scoring chances via increased rebounding. The wild card may be Bobby's and Vashil's scoring ability and how that translates into less pressure on Rowdy and others. Jay was a wild card at best. Scoring was a crap shoot and his defense was just OK. Dority and Coleman should be a clear step up and in particular Coleman as he is 6'4" and Jay was maybe 6'1" but a very skinny 6'1". We'll see...
Our returning players have all shown steady improvement since they have been at Valpo. There is every reason to think they will be better yet next year. That includes Kevin and Ryan, both of whom are constantly working on their game. I would also expect more consistent outside shooting from Boggs, Bogan and Kinney. THEN - blend the talents and abilities of Dority, Capo and Coleman to the mix along with our overall experience level, and we should be a very difficult team for anyone to beat - in conference or out.
Jay will be missed for all the little things he brought to the table. He was a great ballhandler and underrated passer (occasionally turnover prone... but still extremely effective). More importantly, Jay lived for big games, always performing well in the spotlight. He was perhaps our most clutch player besides Ryan.
I think most of the people on this message board truly underrated his importance to the team, and his presence will not be easily replaced. Most importantly,jay is a great guy and was one of the most personable, friendly players on the team. He will be a great addition to his next team.
Quote from: mp91 on April 26, 2012, 07:39:22 AM
Jay will be missed for all the little things he brought to the table. He was a great ballhandler and underrated passer (occasionally turnover prone... but still extremely effective). More importantly, Jay lived for big games, always performing well in the spotlight. He was perhaps our most clutch player besides Ryan.
I think most of the people on this message board truly underrated his importance to the team, and his presence will not be easily replaced. Most importantly,jay is a great guy and was one of the most personable, friendly players on the team. He will be a great addition to his next team.
In the final minutes of a close game, there was nobody else I would rather have shooting the free throws. The first tight game that comes down to free throws, we will all be wishing Jay was on the court.
For me personally it's not about underrating Jay's contributions to the team. He chose to take his services elsewhere and that's fine. I wish him luck. Beyond that I'm more interested in talking about how we can pick up the pieces and continue to move forward in a positive direction.
Quote from: mp91 on April 26, 2012, 07:39:22 AM
Jay will be missed for all the little things he brought to the table. He was a great ballhandler and underrated passer (occasionally turnover prone... but still extremely effective). More importantly, Jay lived for big games, always performing well in the spotlight. He was perhaps our most clutch player besides Ryan.
I think most of the people on this message board truly underrated his importance to the team, and his presence will not be easily replaced. Most importantly,jay is a great guy and was one of the most personable, friendly players on the team. He will be a great addition to his next team.
I'm sure Jay is a great guy and anytime you lose a player with this much experience with the same guys it can hurt. But, (sorry, I couldn't resist) let's take a look at the "big" games and Jay's performance. Now, we much somehow define "big". Presumably you mean the Arizona or Ohio State games, but you also have to include the Butler games, the Loyola game to clinch the title and the Detroit championship game, right?
No doubt Jay really stepped up at OSU going 7 for 14 overall, 4 of 9 from the 3 for 18 points in 30 minutes. But what about the other "big" games? Not so good. In the Detroit game he was 1 of 5, 0 for 4 for 4 pts in 19 minutes. At CSU in a big showdown late in the season he was 0 for 1 for 0 pts in 26 minutes.
Overall Jay played the 5th most minutes on the team but averaged only 7.3 pts per game while shooting 40.3% and 29.2 from the 3. Richie Edwards averaged more points in only 17 minutes. Different roles, I know. Still, how many times did we see Jay just heave one from well beyond the NBA line with limited results. I remember some "NO NO NO YES" moments, but more "NO NO NO NO" moments.
There is no doubt about his clutch free throw shooting, that is always important. Both Dority and Coleman are very good free throw shooters and Ben Boggs actually had a better overall percentage.
Again, no intended knock against Jay, just sayin the facts actually show that he wasn't necessarily a big game player. I'm comfortable that Coleman and Dority will be more than adequate replacements.
Being a former coach of more than 30 years....I will say there is probably more information than we can ascertain regarding Jay.
But bringing in more athletic guards probably made him realize his playing minutes were going to be limited. He disappeared
for two years in a row when it came to post season play....could it be attitude...work ethics...bending rules...or nothing at all. Only his teammates
and coaching staff knows. The truth will only come to fruition if one of his former teammates would bring it too light.
Good luck Jay.
Two points...
1 - I think this was obvious when he did not travel to the NIT game against Miami (FL). Of course no information was given as to why he did not travel to that game.
2 - Whenever VU gets a public school person near Chicago I always expect him to transfer before he graduates. So I did not expect Jay to stay (rhyme).
Quote from: 32 on April 27, 2012, 08:22:44 AM
Two points...
1 - I think this was obvious when he did not travel to the NIT game against Miami (FL). Of course no information was given as to why he did not travel to that game.
2 - Whenever VU gets a public school person near Chicago I always expect him to transfer before he graduates. So I did not expect Jay to stay (rhyme).
I'm pretty sure Jay was sicker thn a dog--hospitalized etc. Pretty good excuse for not playing.
Quote from: vu72 on April 27, 2012, 09:10:46 AM
Quote from: 32 on April 27, 2012, 08:22:44 AM
Two points...
1 - I think this was obvious when he did not travel to the NIT game against Miami (FL). Of course no information was given as to why he did not travel to that game.
2 - Whenever VU gets a public school person near Chicago I always expect him to transfer before he graduates. So I did not expect Jay to stay (rhyme).
I'm pretty sure Jay was sicker thn a dog--hospitalized etc. Pretty good excuse for not playing.
I'll take Uninformed Conclusions for $1000, Alex. ::)
Quote from: StlVUFan on April 27, 2012, 09:24:19 AMI'll take Uninformed Conclusions for $1000, Alex
Not to pile on, but if that were the case, we return to my earlier point: why not announce as soon as possible after the end of the season then, a la Vucic & Edwards? If he wanted out then, he would have said so, so as to have more options.
As it is, I think he must have seen the writing on the wall with the arrival of a 1/2 and a 2/3--which must have pushed him over the edge he might have been getting to slowly anyway.
Jay was sick and did not travel, Matt was sick went with the team and did not play, even Ryan was just getting over being quite ill if I remember right. :snore:
Is it a little odd that he waited so long, but lets say good luck and move on. I'm sure if we need a Jay Harris moment next year we can convince one of the new guys to throw up up a contested 25 footer with 29 seconds left on the shot clock.
Quote from: sectionee on April 27, 2012, 10:37:24 AMI'm sure if we need a Jay Harris moment next year we can convince one of the new guys to throw up up a contested 25 footer with 29 seconds left on the shot clock.
*dying laughing...but a slightly bitter kind of laughter
Quote from: sectionee on April 27, 2012, 10:37:24 AMJay was sick and did not travel, Matt was sick went with the team and did not play, even Ryan was just getting over being quite ill if I remember right.
This. It spoke volumes.
Are we sure Jay was ill? I could have sworn it was something else.
lowposter
• Valparaiso played with a season-low six players in a 66-50 loss to Miami (Fla.) in the first-round of the NIT on March 14. The Crusaders were without key reserves Jay Harris and Matt Kenney, as both guards were out after spending part of the week in the hospital. Ryan Broekhoff was fresh out of the hospital himself, and the Horizon League Player of the Year had 18 points and seven rebounds in the loss to the Hurricanes.
Quote from: lowposter on April 27, 2012, 02:36:27 PM
Are we sure Jay was ill? I could have sworn it was something else.
lowposter
You may be remembering that he was excused from an early game to attend a family wedding as I recall.
Made Even Shorter: Valpo's win over Georgia Southern on Friday was even more impressive considering the Crusaders traveled just eight scholarship players and nine players in all. Sophomore Jay Harris was excused from the trip to attend his sister's wedding. Of the eight scholarship players, seven played at least 20 minutes, with three starters logging at least 34 minutes apiece.
Quote from: wh on April 25, 2012, 09:56:06 PM
Our returning players have all shown steady improvement since they have been at Valpo. There is every reason to think they will be better yet next year. That includes Kevin and Ryan, both of whom are constantly working on their game. I would also expect more consistent outside shooting from Boggs, Bogan and Kinney. THEN - blend the talents and abilities of Dority, Capo and Coleman to the mix along with our overall experience level, and we should be a very difficult team for anyone to beat - in conference or out.
Whether or not you like the "churn and burn" recruiting approach employed by Valpo, it's hard to argue with the results. Next year's roster will included guys with experience in the Big Ten, the SEC, the ACC, the Big East and Conference USA ... that's hard for any mid-major to compete with.
If you visit the Butler board, you'll see a lot of fans upset because Stevens seems so committed to kids that he won't get rid of 2 or 3 each year to make room for higher profile recruits/transfers. There's definitely a difference in approach ... Butler's recruiting "mistakes" are around for 4 years, while Valpo's quietly disappear to make room for the next wave of guys. As a result, Valpo has more freedom to take a few chances in recruiting, knowing they aren't making a 4 year commitment.
I agree with wh and vu72 that Bryce has really outdone himself this year. Adding Dority and Coleman is a huge upgrade over Harris and anyone who's seen Capobianco knows he's way better than Edwards was. Barring major injuries, this team appears poised to do some damage in the NCAA tourney.
^^^^Love it^^^^ :thumbsup:
I think "churn and burn" is too harsh an analysis. Bryce simply sits down with his players and explains their situation, what needs to improve to change that and then lets the individual make up his own mind. I seriously doubt anyone is "forced" out as has been suggested.
How Butler handles it is a good question and hopefully haze of another of our posters can give us some insight. Brad Stevens, while complimenting us on one of our recent wins over them, said of us "those guys are really old". Point well taken. We have had this discussion before. Is it better to go after an 18 year old "All Star" or use a scholarship on a player who is older, more mature, has had the chance to learn at a big conference environment and build his body to a college level? It's Jay Harris v. Cory Johnson or Brandon Wood or LaVonte Dority or others.
Yes, our players are "old". But the chance for them to mature and show their college level character seems to be working. It's not about kicking someone to the curb. It's about allowing someone to move on to a place where they can perform as they think they can or at a school perhaps less rigorous academically or less religious, who knows. Sitting on the bench for four years just doesn't sound like a bunch of fun particularly if you still have to work hard in practice, study on planes or buses and...you get the picture.
A couple years ago, I mentioned to a D-1 assistant "Don't you think Garrett Butcher will leave at the end of the season? I can't see him ever getting minutes there the next couple of years." He immediately said "No. Butler has very few kids transfer out of the program." Clearly most D-1 programs force players out. That's the number one reason there's so much movement. However, Butler seems to have a different philosophy.
Quote from: vu72 on April 28, 2012, 10:18:23 AM
Bryce simply sits down with his players and explains their situation, what needs to improve to change that and then lets the individual make up his own mind. I seriously doubt anyone is "forced" out as has been suggested.
From what I know, this is exactly the same approach taken by Coach Stevens. Given that, I can't explain why Butler has had one player transfer in the last 7 years and Valpo seems to average 2 to 3 per year. Valpo's numbers certainly seem to be closer to the norm for DI schools. With that said, it still seems like a large number of kids who choose to attend Valpo and then decide it isn't where they want to be. Whatever the cause, it doesn't seem to be hindering the program much.
Quote from: vu72 on April 28, 2012, 10:18:23 AM
Yes, our players are "old". But the chance for them to mature and show their college level character seems to be working.
This is also a good point. A majority of Valpo's roster next year will be comprised of 22 and 23 year-olds, which is a big advantage (in terms of maturity and experience) when competing against 18 and 19 year-olds. If my math is correct, David Chadwick will turn 24 before he ever plays a game for Valpo and will be a 25 year-old senior in '14-'15.
It will be interesting to see if Bryce continues with this strategy going forward. My guess is that he will as long as it keeps working.
Quote from: zvillehaze on April 29, 2012, 09:26:32 AMIf my math is correct, David Chadwick will turn 24 before he ever plays a game for Valpo and will be a 25 year-old senior in '14-'15.
Wow...your math is assuredly correct. Usually when that happens, you figure he's a Mormon coming back from mission.
...he's just on a different kind of mission.
Quote from: zvillehaze on April 29, 2012, 09:13:36 AMWith that said, it still seems like a large number of kids who choose to attend Valpo and then decide it isn't where they want to be.
Z-ville is right. I don't think Bryce sat either Richie or Jay down and said they would not have a role, at least not the role they personally wanted. Maybe Hrvoje, but the only one we're sure of in all this is Cameron Witt (and I'm on record not liking that). It's not like Bryce is channeling Nick Saban--it's like Z-ville puts it.
You know, the whole churn and burn might not be a bad method to go, if it is controlled correctly. With older players, you definately receive the maturity factor. The "free agent if graduated" rule pushes towards the older mature players. My original thoughts on that was the difficulty of incorporating a player for only one year....however, with year round activity of players on campus, that learning curve/chemistry issue might not be as much of a factor.
I am not really flipping positions on this, as there should be some sort of loyalty attached to a program, but perhaps my views are too "old school". The produce now or be gone will probably be a movement in the game, with all the changes in rules, etc.
lowposter
Jay Harris lands at Wagner:
http://www.silive.com/colleges/index.ssf/2012/05/wagner_college_mens_basketball_27.html (http://www.silive.com/colleges/index.ssf/2012/05/wagner_college_mens_basketball_27.html)
Interesting for a couple of reasons. First, I thought Jay picked Valpo because in part it was close to home. Wagner is outside of New York City. Second, he is transferring to the only other Lutheran college that plays D1.
Good for him, and interesting the fanfare in which the writer speaks about Harris! I guess we had the same high expectations out of HS.
Surprised that Wagner is Dajuan he picked...
Quote from: vu72 on May 18, 2012, 04:04:48 PM
Interesting for a couple of reasons. First, I thought Jay picked Valpo because in part it was close to home. Wagner is outside of New York City. Second, he is transferring to the only other Lutheran college that plays D1.
I wouldn't say that Valpo and Wagner are miles apart as far as types of schools but I also wouldn't say they are very similar. Valpo advertises itself as a National Lutheran University while you wouldn't notice so much that Wagner is Lutheran as much as it is part of New York City on Staten Island.
We're located in New York City, which offers an amazing wealth of experiences and entertainment. Manhattan is just a 25 minute ride away on the free Staten Island Ferry. As a Wagner student, you'll attend world-class arts performances and visit world-renowned museums; you'll cheer for the famed professional athletic teams at our doorstep, and you'll follow in the footsteps of those who came before you to make their mark on places like Wall Street and Times Square.http://www.wagner.edu/about_wagner/ (http://www.wagner.edu/about_wagner/)
Kind of off the subject, but I understand Valpo will be playing Wagner in football in the near future.
I bet in Chesterton he'd get quite a ribbing for transferring to Wagner...
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on May 18, 2012, 10:03:34 PM
I bet in Chesterton he'd get quite a ribbing for transferring to Wagner...
Also on LaPorte Ave, Apostle.
touché!
i hope he's able to honus skills at Wagner.
Interesting quote in the comments: "Why is he transferring?? Well....he is usually the last one to practice (and late on occasion) and the first one to leave . Classes, do I really have to go? Weight room, do I really need to get bigger and stronger? I bet Coach Drew gave Jay every opportunity to become a better person and player, he refused to take advantage of it.....and mommy and daddy came to his defense. I change of scenery hopefully will get him to work and play to his ultimate potential.
Just my take on it....I may be way off base.......but I doubt it !!"
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on May 18, 2012, 10:33:19 PM
touché!
i hope he's able to honus skills at Wagner.
Okay, I was as slow as Dizzy Dean on this comment. Jay should be able to eat all the burgers and eggs he wants to eat since he'll be playing his home games on Staten Island. Cholesterol will not be an issue.
Doesn't Coach look like a West Virginia coal miner in the picture above. Like he said to one of his players when they asked him what kind of bats he preferred. "Wood, son."
well done! I was just about to put out an APB for you before I used up all the good puns.
I guess with more PT he'll really be staten it up at Wagner.
Quote from: bbtds on May 18, 2012, 05:11:35 PM
Quote from: vu72 on May 18, 2012, 04:04:48 PM
Interesting for a couple of reasons. First, I thought Jay picked Valpo because in part it was close to home. Wagner is outside of New York City. Second, he is transferring to the only other Lutheran college that plays D1.
I wouldn't say that Valpo and Wagner are miles apart as far as types of schools but I also wouldn't say they are very similar. Valpo advertises itself as a National Lutheran University while you wouldn't notice so much that Wagner is Lutheran as much as it is part of New York City on Staten Island.
We're located in New York City, which offers an amazing wealth of experiences and entertainment. Manhattan is just a 25 minute ride away on the free Staten Island Ferry. As a Wagner student, you'll attend world-class arts performances and visit world-renowned museums; you'll cheer for the famed professional athletic teams at our doorstep, and you'll follow in the footsteps of those who came before you to make their mark on places like Wall Street and Times Square.
http://www.wagner.edu/about_wagner/ (http://www.wagner.edu/about_wagner/)
Sad but true, some "lutheran" colleges truly hide their identity. Look at Gettysburg some time. You have to dig hard and long to find any reference to the fact that they are a college of the ELCA, as is Wagner. It is just silly to try to mask your roots. Valpo correctly states its affiliation proudly, as it should.
Wagner - ribbing - Chesterton - Laporte Avenue...
Wagners in Valpo (on Laporte Ave) closed very suddenly in April. It was our "go to place" for casual dining.
Gone, but not forgotten. That Buffalo Chicken sandwitch on pretzel roll was the real thing.
lowposter
Quote from: lowposter on May 21, 2012, 04:57:41 PM
Wagners in Valpo (on Laporte Ave) closed very suddenly in April. It was our "go to place" for casual dining.
that's disappointing. i liked their food the few times i was there. and i got to enjoy them double - i lived on alan drive for a year, right behind them. and when the weather was nice and my windows were open, we could smell the food they were cooking, and it always made our mouths water. yum.
Quote from: lowposter on May 21, 2012, 04:57:41 PMWagner - ribbing - Chesterton
Thanks for picking up on that. My mother, if she'd heard me say that, would've been wagner finger at me for punning like that...