The Dayton fans message board (link below) is reporting a rumor that The HL has decided to NOT let Butler compete for any conference championships next year. Thus their planned departure will be moved up a year. The CAA did the same thing to VCU. It will be interesting to see if things play out this way.
http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?p=269699#post269699 (http://www.udpride.com/forums/showthread.php?p=269699#post269699)
Makes sense -- why underwrite a 2012-13 farewell tour. It let's everyone move on. A shame to be left without that Butler home basketball game though.
It's official: http://www.butlersports.com/releases/052912aaa (http://www.butlersports.com/releases/052912aaa)
What does it matter to them when they leave? Just like this year, their sports teams wouldn't be winning any championships anyways ;). They might as well get started getting beaten down by the A-10, instead of taking some more HL beatings from Valpo :)
This suggests to me that the HL may soon be rolling out an expansion plan and needed to get rid of the butler hangover first. A good house cleaning move...
That will hopefully be true wh. It does sadden me a little bit now that I do not have a rival to despise in conference since we are not affiliated with ORU or Butler anymore. Hopefully someone steps up to the plate for me to root against :).
I do see on the Butler board and some other boards that they are stating we lose our automatic bid in baseball, but I believe it was jetz who mentioned that there is a 2-3 year grace period to get back to 6. I assume that is correct?
Quote from: valpotx on May 29, 2012, 04:26:07 PM
That will hopefully be true wh. It does sadden me a little bit now that I do not have a rival to despise in conference since we are not affiliated with ORU or Butler anymore. Hopefully someone steps up to the plate for me to root against :).
I do see on the Butler board and some other boards that they are stating we lose our automatic bid in baseball, but I believe it was jetz who mentioned that there is a 2-3 year grace period to get back to 6. I assume that is correct?
Those people know less about baseball than they do basketball, if that's possible. We're not going to lose our automatic in baseball any more than we're going to lose the "millions" of dollars their basketball team WASN'T going to earn for the conference next year anyway.
In reality the value of Butler was gone already. What was Butler basketball going to do for the Horizon League in 2012-2013? Their other sports weren't that awful hot either. And if Butler doesn't start to revamp and begin to edge forward in basketball their transfer to the A-10 could be the next biggest bust next to Pujols. The Horizon League may come out looking like the Cardinals with it's own Carlos Beltran, David Freeze, Lance Berkman and Kyle Lohse to power the HL to a new level.
I am surprised and disappointed that there has been no press release yet from the Horizon League responding to this news with an explanation of the league's position. From a public relations perspective, it would be wise for the HL to distribute a strong and forward-looking announcement clarifying future actions as soon as possible.
Quote from: valpopal on May 29, 2012, 05:15:39 PM
I am surprised and disappointed that there has been no press release yet from the Horizon League responding to this news with an explanation of the league's position. From a public relations perspective, it would be wise for the HL to distribute a strong and forward-looking announcement clarifying future actions as soon as possible.
Call them. 317-237-5622
I'm sure they are working on developing a statement for a press conference that will happen fairly soon.
I would like respond to the comment that the HL might well come out looking like the St. Louis Cardinals, who so far have more than adequately replaced stars like Albert Pujols. I could not disagree more. The loss of Butler is going to hurt the HL, and hurt a lot. None of the likely replacement candidates, all of whom have been mentioned many times on this board, come even close to replacing what Butler brought to the league -- and to Valpo. Private school, great academic reputation, and a long rivalry with VU, dating back to at least the old Indiana Collegiate Conference days. Most of the replacement candidates seem to have names that consist of initials, hyphens, or some directional reference. And although Oakland's name doesn't fit in any of the categories I just listed, let's face it, most people do not know even where it is located, much less anything about the school. Call me a snob -- but these type of schools do not carry the same cachet as Butler. Simple as that.
Paul
I can understand what you are saying 78, but to be honest, not many people outside of the Midwest truly know where Butler is either. Yes, they have the brand name recognition now from the back-to-back title game appearances, but many people I speak to about Butler had no clue they were in Indiana. I know your point was that they (replacement schools) don't even bring that name recognition, but 5-10 years down the line, many people outside of the Midwest will have forgotten about Butler if they haven't stayed in the public eye if they become a middle of the pack A-10 team like I predict...
Quote from: valpopal on May 29, 2012, 04:00:33 PM
It's official: http://www.butlersports.com/releases/052912aaa (http://www.butlersports.com/releases/052912aaa)
Interesting: Butler expressed thanks to the A-10 for including them a year early, but did not thank the HL for letting them off a year early. Bad blood?
TX -- living on one coast I can attest to the fact that most people outside of the midwest do not see the midwestern states clearly and accurately: most see them as OHIOMICHIGANINDIANAILLINOISIOWAWISOCSINMINNESOTA and Butler is located somewhere there. Ask many to fill in a map and they are stumped.
Quote from: valpotx on May 29, 2012, 05:53:00 PMI can understand what you are saying 78, but to be honest, not many people outside of the Midwest truly know where Butler is either. Yes, they have the brand name recognition now from the back-to-back title game appearances, but many people I speak to about Butler had no clue they were in Indiana. I know your point was that they (replacement schools) don't even bring that name recognition, but 5-10 years down the line, many people outside of the Midwest will have forgotten about Butler if they haven't stayed in the public eye if they become a middle of the pack A-10 team like I predict...
I think you are correct, although the fact that the first F4 occured in our hometown helped with that.
In the end, I'm not so sure it matters that people know where Butler is; the fact is, that everyone knows that Butler exists. And would generally correlate our name with success.
I know you are a big Baseball guy, so congrats on your tourney appearance. Personally, when we went, I enjoyed going on the road and seeing a new ball park... its too bad the team doesn't get to enjoy that experience.
The Horizon has a lot of work to do...
i hope the horizon league jacked their exit fee way way way up. $50k was chump change to start with, and now they're bailing early? fail.
Quote from: vuweathernerd on May 29, 2012, 06:19:49 PM
i hope the horizon league jacked their exit fee way way way up. $50k was chump change to start with, and now they're bailing early? fail.
They didn't bail early, nerd. Take a look at the A-10 press release. It's obvious that the HL forced the issue by telling butler that they were not going to be eligible to win any championships and therefore be unable to go to NCAA in any sport. Who knows but what they were told that their athletes would not be eligible for conference awards, etc. No athletic department would be willing to accept those conditions, unless they absolutely had no other choice. The A-10 is in for one real cluster f of a season. The teams that will be leaving are still there and now so are their replacements.
http://www.atlantic10.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/052912aab.html (http://www.atlantic10.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/052912aab.html)
G
There is a pretty big part of me that right away says "Go ahead and go ya babies....hope you enjoyed those lumps on the way out"
Then another part of me says "16 seed is the most HLMBB will EVER get with this group"
I hope I am wrong, but with such a killer team set to take the floor this fall....well you get the idea.
I'm curious how this will affect basketball scheduling this season. LeCrone mentions in the espn.com article that the Horizon league will be just fine with a 16 game, 9 team schedule. This will really affect Valpo since it's our travel partner that's leaving...
Quote from: Valpo2010 on May 29, 2012, 07:24:10 PM
I'm curious how this will affect basketball scheduling this season. LeCrone mentions in the espn.com article that the Horizon league will be just fine with a 16 game, 9 team schedule. This will really affect Valpo since it's our travel partner that's leaving...
The schedule for Mens basketball had not been completed yet. They don't necessarily have to go with travel partners and on a few trips for some schools the travel partner was not traveling near or along side them. Two more days off or two more non-conf games or 1 of each. Yes, I truly believe there was some kind of disagreement between Danko/Collier and LeCrone. There was some kind of not seeing eye to eye on this last year of membership which I'm sure had to do with Butler feeling far far far far superior over the rest of the HL schools. LeCrone is probably well aware he needs to move to Chicago also.
Quote from: wh on May 29, 2012, 06:49:43 PM
Quote from: vuweathernerd on May 29, 2012, 06:19:49 PM
i hope the horizon league jacked their exit fee way way way up. $50k was chump change to start with, and now they're bailing early? fail.
They didn't bail early, nerd. Take a look at the A-10 press release. It's obvious that the HL forced the issue by telling butler that they were not going to be eligible to win any championships and therefore be unable to go to NCAA in any sport. Who knows but what they were told that their athletes would not be eligible for conference awards, etc. No athletic department would be willing to accept those conditions, unless they absolutely had no other choice. The A-10 is in for one real cluster f of a season. The teams that will be leaving are still there and now so are their replacements.
http://www.atlantic10.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/052912aab.html (http://www.atlantic10.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/052912aab.html)
G
the original deal was for butler to leave NEXT year (13-14). therefore yes, they are bailing early. and if the conference said such a thing, shame on them. the bcs conferences didn't pull such petty punches like this when they were trading teams.
HL presidents made the decision to deal Butler out:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/brett-mcmurphy/19194890 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/brett-mcmurphy/19194890)
Quote from: bbtds on May 29, 2012, 05:33:14 PM
Quote from: valpopal on May 29, 2012, 05:15:39 PM
I am surprised and disappointed that there has been no press release yet from the Horizon League responding to this news with an explanation of the league's position. From a public relations perspective, it would be wise for the HL to distribute a strong and forward-looking announcement clarifying future actions as soon as possible.
Call them. 317-237-5622
I'm sure they are working on developing a statement for a press conference that will happen fairly soon.
It is not my job to call the Horizon League officials, and I'm sure they would not respond to me if I did. It is their job to be prepared. By all accounts, they knew Butler would announce the change in plans, and for the purpose of public relations the HL should have had a concurrent statement ready for the press. It is disappointing that they did not.
Hmmm. Should read the comments section on the CBS article. Interesting. :'(
Quote from: VULB#62 on May 29, 2012, 09:30:00 PM
Hmmm. Should read the comments section on the CBS article. Interesting. :'(
Well, that was your first mistake. :lol:
I tend to agree with the Horizon League's decision to ban Butler from the conference tournaments. If they are just going to pack up and leave, why should they have the chance to represent the Horizon League in the NCAAs with the league's automatic bid? You can't blame Butler for their decision, but I don't think the Horizon League is at fault here either. Best of luck to Butler, hopefully we'll be able to get a non-conference game with them every once in a while. I'll be eagerly awaiting the Horizon League's response.
Quote from: wh on May 29, 2012, 09:15:52 PM
HL presidents made the decision to deal Butler out:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/brett-mcmurphy/19194890 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/brett-mcmurphy/19194890)
Why would you do such a thing, let them compete but not be championship eligible? This seems just really petty to me and the HL looks like the one being the big cry baby. I agree with valpopal that it appears the HL is unprepared for the early departure and should have let well enough alone, if Butler had a championship worthy team then let them have their championship. This is suppose to be about student athletes not a bunch of baloney politics.
I guess I'm having a hard time understanding the finger pointing at Butler in this....
Its clear that a decision was made amongst the HL that Butler was going to be excluded from any championships, etc.... how is that Butler's fault? (other than leaving the conference in the first place).
And before people go huffing and puffing about the exit fee, just you remember how much money you've banked, and Butler LEFT BEHIND off of our two Championship Game runs!
The dollar amounts we are leaving behind have to be more than the cumulative dollars your program (or almost any other in the league) have generated in your existence!
You'll have a good program next year, be happy, but now you'll get to be the ones that have to deal with the rest of the conference bringing you down...
I thought Valpo left the Summit League...oh wait...
Chasing Butler out early was dumb, just plain dumb. It would have been another year for the Horizon League to show they weren't just Butler and the also rans. Now everybody will say how much tougher the A10 is than the HL if Butler finishes mid pack.
Best of luck to Butler, they made the right move to join the A10
Quote from: Nildogg on May 29, 2012, 10:31:29 PM
I guess I'm having a hard time understanding the finger pointing at Butler in this....
Its clear that a decision was made amongst the HL that Butler was going to be excluded from any championships, etc.... how is that Butler's fault? (other than leaving the conference in the first place).
And before people go huffing and puffing about the exit fee, just you remember how much money you've banked, and Butler LEFT BEHIND off of our two Championship Game runs!
The dollar amounts we are leaving behind have to be more than the cumulative dollars your program (or almost any other in the league) have generated in your existence!
You'll have a good program next year, be happy, but now you'll get to be the ones that have to deal with the rest of the conference bringing you down...
It's just so easy to see the arrogance that pervades Butler thinking and LeCrone finally after all these years had enough of it. Good riddance, Nildogg. We won't miss you!!!! Also let's make a bet when WNDY lets their TV contract to televise Butler games run out. 2013-14 is my guess. Good luck wondering how your basketball team looks playing on the east coast and paying those $80 A-10 video fees.
Quote from: FWalum on May 29, 2012, 10:08:46 PM
Quote from: wh on May 29, 2012, 09:15:52 PM
HL presidents made the decision to deal Butler out:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/brett-mcmurphy/19194890 (http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/blog/brett-mcmurphy/19194890)
Why would you do such a thing, let them compete but not be championship eligible? This seems just really petty to me and the HL looks like the one being the big cry baby. I agree with valpopal that it appears the HL is unprepared for the early departure and should have let well enough alone, if Butler had a championship worthy team then let them have their championship. This is suppose to be about student athletes not a bunch of baloney politics.
You don't really believe this do you? Have you been living under a rock for the past decade? It's all about the $$$ and politics.
Quote from: bbtds on May 29, 2012, 10:44:41 PMQuote from: Nildogg on May 29, 2012, 10:31:29 PMI guess I'm having a hard time understanding the finger pointing at Butler in this.... Its clear that a decision was made amongst the HL that Butler was going to be excluded from any championships, etc.... how is that Butler's fault? (other than leaving the conference in the first place). And before people go huffing and puffing about the exit fee, just you remember how much money you've banked, and Butler LEFT BEHIND off of our two Championship Game runs! The dollar amounts we are leaving behind have to be more than the cumulative dollars your program (or almost any other in the league) have generated in your existence! You'll have a good program next year, be happy, but now you'll get to be the ones that have to deal with the rest of the conference bringing you down...
It's just so easy to see the arrogance that pervades Butler thinking and LeCrone finally after all these years had enough of it. Good riddance, Nildogg. We won't miss you!!!! Also let's make a bet when WNDY lets their TV contract to televise Butler games run out. 2013-14 is my guess. Good luck wondering how your basketball team looks playing on the east coast and paying those $80 A-10 video fees.
Oh, wah! You can thank Butler for anything good that this conference has right now... including whatever it was that you've spent our tournament earnings on. You are welcome. Good luck with your high teen's seeds, and lack of interest in the HL anymore. Enjoy being the team that once hit a lucky shot... Yes, Good Riddance
Quote from: crusaderguy08 on May 29, 2012, 10:54:37 PMWhy would you do such a thing, let them compete but not be championship eligible? This seems just really petty to me and the HL looks like the one being the big cry baby. I agree with valpopal that it appears the HL is unprepared for the early departure and should have let well enough alone, if Butler had a championship worthy team then let them have their championship. This is suppose to be about student athletes not a bunch of baloney politics.
You don't really believe this do you? Have you been living under a rock for the past decade? It's all about the $$$ and politics.
Did you notice I used the words
suppose to be? Believe me I know that this is all about $$$ and politics and it sucks.
Quote from: bbtds on May 29, 2012, 10:44:41 PM
Quote from: Nildogg on May 29, 2012, 10:31:29 PM
I guess I'm having a hard time understanding the finger pointing at Butler in this....
Its clear that a decision was made amongst the HL that Butler was going to be excluded from any championships, etc.... how is that Butler's fault? (other than leaving the conference in the first place).
And before people go huffing and puffing about the exit fee, just you remember how much money you've banked, and Butler LEFT BEHIND off of our two Championship Game runs!
The dollar amounts we are leaving behind have to be more than the cumulative dollars your program (or almost any other in the league) have generated in your existence!
You'll have a good program next year, be happy, but now you'll get to be the ones that have to deal with the rest of the conference bringing you down...
It's just so easy to see the arrogance that pervades Butler thinking and LeCrone finally after all these years had enough of it. Good riddance, Nildogg. We won't miss you!!!! Also let's make a bet when WNDY lets their TV contract to televise Butler games run out. 2013-14 is my guess. Good luck wondering how your basketball team looks playing on the east coast and paying those $80 A-10 video fees.
I'll take that WNDY bet if your offering it to outsiders. Really, you think they're going to drop the contract because they're playing better teams with more name recognition?
I was going to wish nildogg well until that last response lol. I don't blame Butler one bit for leaving the conference, or leaving early when championship restrictions were placed on them. As a past student athlete, it would have sucked if we were not allowed to compete for the championship throughout the season. Though we really had no chance at one anyways with ORU in our conference for baseball, it still gives you something to shoot for!
It is kind of petty for the HL to treat a long-time member as such. We are obviously in the pole position to take over as the premier basketball program in the HL, and the fact that HL fans are mentioning us in this way says how much we have improved over the 5 HL seasons. I remember how much Butler fans detested us joining the conference, but now that we beat them 4 times in a row, there is at least a tiny bit of respect to that hate :).
I do hope we add 3 teams that can be competitive. Maybe LeCrone will surprise us and steal some decent teams away, Oakland and 2 others. All 3 should have baseball programs as well, so we can get back to 8 (selfish request).
Edit: Anyone else notice that they already took Butler off of the HL website? I guess school is out so this school year is completed?
BUTLER...is OUT, FOR the SUMMER!
(dun-dun-dun-DUN, dun-dun-dun-DUN, dun-dun-dun-DUN-DUN-DUN)
BUTler...is OUT, FOR EVAH!
(dun-dun-dun-DUN, dun-dun-dun-DUN, dun-dun-dun-DUN-DUN-DUN)
I'm all for it, as much fun as it would have been to pound them three more times. I just think they should have waited until the school year started to go Corleone on them.
Good opportunity for the remaining HL teams to be the next Butler, as Butler took over for Xavier when they left. However, it's going to have to start in November and December. Valpo and Detroit are the two most likely teams to actually pull off some kind of upset that will garner the conference some recognition, and then whoever does get the league's bid is actually going to have to win a game or two consistently in the tournament.
I don't blame either side for this. HL presidents didn't want Butler getting more publicity in place of other teams that were staying, especially since they would already be doing some additional draining of the funds that they've earned in the tourney the past few years. Butler doesn't want to get held out of the NCAAs for basketball, but especially their other sports who wouldn't have an opportunity to do us otherwise.
It'll be interesting to see how this ends up on both sides long-term. Butler's TV deal with My-Indy 23 isn't going away. If anything they'll get even more coverage in the local market because they'll play teams that more people know. Attendance will likely go up, even if ticket prices continue to for that same reason. Other than getting to keep the NCAA tourney money, which is significant, the HL is losing big-time in the short term. Like I said though, it will be interesting to track this story a few years down the road.
Good luck to you all this year.
Quote from: valpotx on May 30, 2012, 01:31:05 AM
Edit: Anyone else notice that they already took Butler off of the HL website? I guess school is out so this school year is completed?
Yes, I noticed the change that removed Butler from the website roster of teams. However, there is still no official announcement by the HL of its position on the latest situation accompanied by a clear and positive statement about moving forward. Anyone who knows anything about public relations will tell you that the extended silence on the part of the HL serves even more as a negative the longer it continues. In fact, the quiet removal of Butler from the website without a concurrent publicity release on behalf of the HL gives an impression of stealth and a lack of openness that only hurts the image of the HL, perhaps suggesting the league administrators do not have their act together.
Quote from: milanmiracle on May 30, 2012, 12:59:16 AM
Quote from: bbtds on May 29, 2012, 10:44:41 PM
Quote from: Nildogg on May 29, 2012, 10:31:29 PM
I guess I'm having a hard time understanding the finger pointing at Butler in this....
Its clear that a decision was made amongst the HL that Butler was going to be excluded from any championships, etc.... how is that Butler's fault? (other than leaving the conference in the first place).
And before people go huffing and puffing about the exit fee, just you remember how much money you've banked, and Butler LEFT BEHIND off of our two Championship Game runs!
The dollar amounts we are leaving behind have to be more than the cumulative dollars your program (or almost any other in the league) have generated in your existence!
You'll have a good program next year, be happy, but now you'll get to be the ones that have to deal with the rest of the conference bringing you down...
It's just so easy to see the arrogance that pervades Butler thinking and LeCrone finally after all these years had enough of it. Good riddance, Nildogg. We won't miss you!!!! Also let's make a bet when WNDY lets their TV contract to televise Butler games run out. 2013-14 is my guess. Good luck wondering how your basketball team looks playing on the east coast and paying those $80 A-10 video fees.
I'll take that WNDY bet if your offering it to outsiders. Really, you think they're going to drop the contract because they're playing better teams with more name recognition?
WNDY went many years without Butler, even when Butler made the NCAA tourney just about every year. If Butler starts placing middle of the pack in the A-10 and the ratings start dropping off things will change fast. Also the cost of televising games from Philadelphia, West Mass, New York City, Richmond, etc. will make the Big Bang Theory, 30 Rock & Monk re-runs and Family Fued look a whole lot better ratings wise. None of those Purdue and IU fans with be loyal to Butler. I lived in Indy during those days and I remember what they were like. You think the cash strapped Indy Star will keep David Woods covering Butler when they are mediocre in the A-10. It won't happen. There is a good reason it is a year by year contract. That glory will fade just as quickly as it started. People are very fickle.
When Anthony Calhoun WISH/WNDY sports director ended the "Butler leaving for the A-10 early" segment on channel 8's newscast he ended saying more cautiously than excitingly that "Yah, we look forward to covering those Butler basketball games on our sister station my Indy 23 coming up this year." That statement coming from a guy who could get excited about almost anything Butler in the past. Anthony Calhoun knows Butler basketball took a hit and it must recover quickly in a tougher conference or things are going downhill quickly. He certainly didn't sound nearly as excited as when he stood on the stage at Hinkle with LeCrone, Collier, Fong and Governor Daniels (by video) and said "back to back Final Fours."
The decision to force Butler's hand needs to be put in context with what Commissioner LeCrone stated only 2 weeks ago in regard to the future direction of the league (below). This has nothing to do with vindictiveness, or losing sight of what's important, or anything of the sort. Our league office and university presidents obviously have a plan in mind and removing Butler from the equation sooner rather than later was seen as necessary to enact that plan. Give these people at least a little credit for heaven's sakes.
Perspectives: The New World
perspectives Jon LeCrone · May 14, 2012
The recent announcement by one of our founding members to affiliate with another athletic conference is proof positive that we are indeed living in the new athletics world.
Our new environment is driven by BCS football and long-term media rights that have provided the impetus for grand scale conference realignment. In the past two years only six Division I conferences have not been impacted by realignment.
As the new world continues to evolve, I will be working with our board on the following:
1) Continuation of our growth agenda. Specifically, we want to continue to develop "built for at large" basketball programs. Successful NCAA Division I basketball provides financial and competitive sustainability for our athletics programs.
2) Membership expansion – we will consider a thoughtful expansion plan to support our growth agenda.
3) Collaboration – we will work collaboratively, internally and externally, to explore how working better together, we can prosper in the new world.
4) Reform – I will continue to work with the Board to insure that our voice, and the voices of like-minded schools/conferences, are heard on the topics of national athletics reform.
We will continue to be guided by our values of competition, learning, service and accountability. Providing a collegiate model, added value athletics experience for all 1400 Horizon League student-athletes is our goal.
Quote from: bbtds on May 30, 2012, 11:30:23 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on May 30, 2012, 12:59:16 AM
Quote from: bbtds on May 29, 2012, 10:44:41 PM
Quote from: Nildogg on May 29, 2012, 10:31:29 PM
I guess I'm having a hard time understanding the finger pointing at Butler in this....
Its clear that a decision was made amongst the HL that Butler was going to be excluded from any championships, etc.... how is that Butler's fault? (other than leaving the conference in the first place).
And before people go huffing and puffing about the exit fee, just you remember how much money you've banked, and Butler LEFT BEHIND off of our two Championship Game runs!
The dollar amounts we are leaving behind have to be more than the cumulative dollars your program (or almost any other in the league) have generated in your existence!
You'll have a good program next year, be happy, but now you'll get to be the ones that have to deal with the rest of the conference bringing you down...
It's just so easy to see the arrogance that pervades Butler thinking and LeCrone finally after all these years had enough of it. Good riddance, Nildogg. We won't miss you!!!! Also let's make a bet when WNDY lets their TV contract to televise Butler games run out. 2013-14 is my guess. Good luck wondering how your basketball team looks playing on the east coast and paying those $80 A-10 video fees.
I'll take that WNDY bet if your offering it to outsiders. Really, you think they're going to drop the contract because they're playing better teams with more name recognition?
WNDY went many years without Butler, even when Butler made the NCAA tourney just about every year. If Butler starts placing middle of the pack in the A-10 and the ratings start dropping off things will change fast. Also the cost of televising games from Philadelphia, West Mass, New York City, Richmond, etc. will make the Big Bang Theory, 30 Rock & Monk re-runs and Family Fued look a whole lot better ratings wise. None of those Purdue and IU fans with be loyal to Butler. I lived in Indy during those days and I remember what they were like. You think the cash strapped Indy Star will keep David Woods covering Butler when they are mediocre in the A-10. It won't happen. There is a good reason it is a year by year contract. That glory will fade just as quickly as it started. People are very fickle.
When Anthony Calhoun WISH/WNDY sports director ended the "Butler leaving for the A-10 early" segment on channel 8's newscast he ended saying more cautiously than excitingly that "Yah, we look forward to covering those Butler basketball games on our sister station my Indy 23 coming up this year." That statement coming from a guy who could get excited about almost anything Butler in the past. Anthony Calhoun knows Butler basketball took a hit and it must recover quickly in a tougher conference or things are going downhill quickly. He certainly didn't sound nearly as excited as when he stood on the stage at Hinkle with LeCrone, Collier, Fong and Governor Daniels (by video) and said "back to back Final Fours."
I agree with some of what you're saying, but those Final 4's changed alot of things around Indy. I am down here now and was before the Final 4 run too. If Butler finishes in the bottom half of the A10 every year, then I am sure WNDY will re-evaluate and kill the contract. However, if they are making the NCAA's on a regular basis or right in the hunt, that contract is going to keep getting renewed. It's amazing to see how things have changed in Indy with Butler, as you can't go anywhere without seeing a Butler t-shrit, hat or sweatshirt. Really, I am not exagerating. I would even go so far as to say there is more Butler apparel than Purdue in the Indianapolis area. IU is making a strong comeback and many of the bandwagon Butler fans will jump ship back to IU this upcoming season but I think Butler's here to stay.
Long term, I see Butler turning into DePaul. Not the DePaul we know now that finishes in the bottom of the Big East, but the DePaul of Ray Meyer/Joey Meyer fame. (Joey wasn't Bryce, but he's better than anything they've had since...whoops).
Butler absolutely has the potential to be a St. John's, Villanova, DePaul, or Marquette if they really want to. Much of it will depend on retaining Stevens, but if they want to push it, this could just be another stepping stone to big time college basketball. They have a knowledgeable fan base, a historic arena, and a great coach. Add in a major city in Indianapolis and the formula for long term success is right there. Plus Stevens could pluck his whole team from Indianapolis if he wanted (and could land them all).
In the end Butler made the right move to go to the A10, and while it sucks for the rest of the Horizon League right now, I suspect some of these other schools were given the option of joining the MVC or A10, most would jump at the chance!
Lots of interesting comments on Butler's exit from the HL and I'll agree with those that say (1) Butler brought national recognition to the HL and its member schools; (2) Butler is a fine academic institution and association with it will be missed if we can't play in non-conference games; (3) if Butler feels they are putting themselves in a better situation in the A10, they should go for it; wouldn't we all want our schools to do that?; (4) the HL has handled the divorce poorly. While it may be true that the HL was not going to let Butler be eligible for league championships, do we know this for certain (CBS's end-of-story comment notwithstanding)? It's also interesting to see that VCU apparently decided to move a year earlier than originally planned.
Quote from: sliman on May 30, 2012, 04:02:46 PM
Lots of interesting comments on Butler's exit from the HL and I'll agree with those that say (1) Butler brought national recognition to the HL and its member schools; (2) Butler is a fine academic institution and association with it will be missed if we can't play in non-conference games; (3) if Butler feels they are putting themselves in a better situation in the A10, they should go for it; wouldn't we all want our schools to do that?; (4) the HL has handled the divorce poorly. While it may be true that the HL was not going to let Butler be eligible for league championships, do we know this for certain (CBS's end-of-story comment notwithstanding)? It's also interesting to see that VCU apparently decided to move a year earlier than originally planned.
That may be where this speculation came from. If I recall correctly, the CAA openly (as in let the world know) banned VCU from the conference tourney -- I was under the impression that it was a conference rule that everyone knew about.
Quote from: sliman on May 30, 2012, 04:02:46 PM
Lots of interesting comments on Butler's exit from the HL and I'll agree with those that say (1) Butler brought national recognition to the HL and its member schools; (2) Butler is a fine academic institution and association with it will be missed if we can't play in non-conference games; (3) if Butler feels they are putting themselves in a better situation in the A10, they should go for it; wouldn't we all want our schools to do that?; (4) the HL has handled the divorce poorly. While it may be true that the HL was not going to let Butler be eligible for league championships, do we know this for certain (CBS's end-of-story comment notwithstanding)? It's also interesting to see that VCU apparently decided to move a year earlier than originally planned.
VCU left because of the exact same situation. They would have been ineligible for the automatic bid. The Horizon League simply made the same decision.
As for all this talk about the Horizon becoming a low major without Butler, that is baloney. The Horizon was ranked 12th last year out of 32. Butler finished fourth in our League. Everyone seems to think that because Butler had two incredible years that they will continue to do so. There were a couple of guys who made those runs happen. Matt Howard and Gordon Hayward. They were a pretty good team last year. One new stud isn't going to make anyone else into Matt Howard or Gordon Hayward. They will be OK again this year. They won't get an at-large bid and they won't win the auto bid. Just my opinion.
As for Nildoggs rants about us getting a low seeding, we'll just have to wait and see. It will be very hard to seed a top 25 team 12-15. We need to bring it and all will be fine.
Um, just my opinion here, but I think we should cool our jets with this Top 25 stuff. Let's beat a couple BCS conference teams -- which we haven't done for quite a while now -- first. Paul
Quote from: 78crusader on May 30, 2012, 04:50:16 PM
Um, just my opinion here, but I think we should cool our jets with this Top 25 stuff. Let's beat a couple BCS conference teams -- which we haven't done for quite a while now -- first. Paul
Exactly. We have to start beating ranked opponents, or other BCS schools for that matter, to even be considered to get votes for the top 25. We aren't that close in my opinion.
Quote from: okinawatyphoon on May 30, 2012, 05:36:06 PMQuote from: 78crusader on May 30, 2012, 04:50:16 PMUm, just my opinion here, but I think we should cool our jets with this Top 25 stuff. Let's beat a couple BCS conference teams -- which we haven't done for quite a while now -- first. Paul
Exactly. We have to start beating ranked opponents, or other BCS schools for that matter, to even be considered to get votes for the top 25. We aren't that close in my opinion.
Question. Does Butler leaving and the proposed plan by HL for coming year mean that Valpo (and other HL teams) will have 2 slots for extra non conference games? To me, that is kinda exciting. Also opens up chance for a inter conference thing like Big Ten-ACC
This is definitely weird that the HL still hasn't put out any information. I really hope that means they have already made a decision on replacement(s). If we weren't replacing Butler as of yet, you would think that they would have just put out a statement on the 'mutual' decision to cut ties now.
Quote from: valpopal on May 30, 2012, 09:25:05 AM
Quote from: valpotx on May 30, 2012, 01:31:05 AM
Edit: Anyone else notice that they already took Butler off of the HL website? I guess school is out so this school year is completed?
Yes, I noticed the change that removed Butler from the website roster of teams. However, there is still no official announcement by the HL of its position on the latest situation accompanied by a clear and positive statement about moving forward. Anyone who knows anything about public relations will tell you that the extended silence on the part of the HL serves even more as a negative the longer it continues. In fact, the quiet removal of Butler from the website without a concurrent publicity release on behalf of the HL gives an impression of stealth and a lack of openness that only hurts the image of the HL, perhaps suggesting the league administrators do not have their act together.
You might be on to something and I am starting to agree with you. 7:00 EST and still no word from HL offices on the immediate departure of Butler University, a 33 year, founding member of the conference.
The CAA still has VCU's logo up on their athletic website, FWIW.
Quote from: okinawatyphoon on May 30, 2012, 05:36:06 PM
Quote from: 78crusader on May 30, 2012, 04:50:16 PM
Um, just my opinion here, but I think we should cool our jets with this Top 25 stuff. Let's beat a couple BCS conference teams -- which we haven't done for quite a while now -- first. Paul
Exactly. We have to start beating ranked opponents, or other BCS schools for that matter, to even be considered to get votes for the top 25. We aren't that close in my opinion.
Valpo needs to walk before it runs. Top 25? Like others said beat a BCS school first
The additions to this team--less the subtractions, will be better than anyone thinks. I'll rest my case.
I like having VU in the Horizon League. I would like the HL with 10 teams and Butler, a natural in-state rival for VU. I'm not sure Butler will be able to succeed in the A-10 the way they have the last several years in the HL. Butler will need an exceptional year to get into the top 40 in RPI. Not sure they will be going to the NCAA tournament much in the next 5-7 years. Good luck to Barry and the Butler way.
Quote from: vu72 on May 30, 2012, 04:41:54 PM
As for all this talk about the Horizon becoming a low major without Butler, that is baloney. The Horizon was ranked 12th last year out of 32. Butler finished fourth in our League. Everyone seems to think that because Butler had two incredible years that they will continue to do so. There were a couple of guys who made those runs happen. Matt Howard and Gordon Hayward. They were a pretty good team last year. One new stud isn't going to make anyone else into Matt Howard or Gordon Hayward. They will be OK again this year. They won't get an at-large bid and they won't win the auto bid. Just my opinion.
As for Nildoggs rants about us getting a low seeding, we'll just have to wait and see. It will be very hard to seed a top 25 team 12-15. We need to bring it and all will be fine.
First of all, I think both sides (the Horizon and Butler) did what they felt they needed to do. It would have been a very awkward year in a lot of ways (much like stating you want a divorce, but will be staying in the house for the next year). I'd encourage everyone to move forward and make the best of it.
I'm making no judgements about what the Horizon will or won't be ... Butler's departure leaves some holes (at least in terms of national recognition) but also provides a lot of opportunities. I like the league and hope that it continues to thrive.
Good luck to Valpo ... hope you reach that top 25 ranking that vu72 is predicting. That would be a great accomplishment for Valpo and great to see a team in the Horizon step forward with some non-conference and post-season success. I've gone back and forth with vu72 over the years and have learned to appreciate his love for Valpo. I don't always appreciate his lack of respect for Butler, but to each their own. I made the choice to come over here, so I'll take whatever is dished out. On a positive note, you guys will likely hang onto that 4 game win streak for quite a while!
As stated in another thread, I don't necessarily buy all of vu72's predictions, but certainly hope he's right about Valpo (and wrong about Butler). In any case, I'll be back later when we can debate actual results. Good luck.
One thing to keep in mind is that until Butler leaves the PFL Valpo will be playing them once a year in football. It should become the goal of the football team every year if Valpo can't win the PFL title then they should at least beat Butler every year. Sound good?
Z-ville- When we left the Mid Con I recall many fans from other MC boards coming over and expressing their well wishes, telling us how they will miss us, etc. To date I haven't seen even one such well wish message on the Butler board. Given everything Butler has done for the league, how you single-handedly put the HL on the map, made us all lots of money, etc., how would you explain such deafening silence?
Quote from: zvillehaze on May 31, 2012, 12:26:29 PM
Quote from: vu72 on May 30, 2012, 04:41:54 PM
As for all this talk about the Horizon becoming a low major without Butler, that is baloney. The Horizon was ranked 12th last year out of 32. Butler finished fourth in our League. Everyone seems to think that because Butler had two incredible years that they will continue to do so. There were a couple of guys who made those runs happen. Matt Howard and Gordon Hayward. They were a pretty good team last year. One new stud isn't going to make anyone else into Matt Howard or Gordon Hayward. They will be OK again this year. They won't get an at-large bid and they won't win the auto bid. Just my opinion.
As for Nildoggs rants about us getting a low seeding, we'll just have to wait and see. It will be very hard to seed a top 25 team 12-15. We need to bring it and all will be fine.
First of all, I think both sides (the Horizon and Butler) did what they felt they needed to do. It would have been a very awkward year in a lot of ways (much like stating you want a divorce, but will be staying in the house for the next year). I'd encourage everyone to move forward and make the best of it.
I'm making no judgements about what the Horizon will or won't be ... Butler's departure leaves some holes (at least in terms of national recognition) but also provides a lot of opportunities. I like the league and hope that it continues to thrive.
Good luck to Valpo ... hope you reach that top 25 ranking that vu72 is predicting. That would be a great accomplishment for Valpo and great to see a team in the Horizon step forward with some non-conference and post-season success. I've gone back and forth with vu72 over the years and have learned to appreciate his love for Valpo. I don't always appreciate his lack of respect for Butler, but to each their own. I made the choice to come over here, so I'll take whatever is dished out. On a positive note, you guys will likely hang onto that 4 game win streak for quite a while!
As stated in another thread, I don't necessarily buy all of vu72's predictions, but certainly hope he's right about Valpo (and wrong about Butler). In any case, I'll be back later when we can debate actual results. Good luck.
You're a class guy 'haze and have always enjoyed your reasoned approach. I suppose I do get a little carried away at times. :o Part of my feelings for Butler relate to my age. As a student we had a very deep rivalry with Butler, both being in the ICC at the time. The current fans for the most part have only seen it for the last five and the attraction to the games had more to do with Butler's national recognition as opposed to viewing it from a rivalry standpoint.
Butler is a great school and I hope Valpo can take the lead in keeping the spotlight on the Horizon now that you have departed. Good Luck to you and the Bulldogs and please stop by from time to time to check in...
Quote from: wh on May 31, 2012, 02:46:36 PM
Z-ville- When we left the Mid Con I recall many fans from other MC boards coming over and expressing their well wishes, telling us how they will miss us, etc. To date I haven't seen even one such well wish message on the Butler board. Given everything Butler has done for the league, how you single-handedly put the HL on the map, made us all lots of money, etc., how would you explain such deafening silence?
I don't think I said any of that stuff about Butler, although I won't deny that Butler did make a few $ for HL schools. I don't have an answer to your question, but I assume you're indicating that the Mid Con had classier fans than the Horizon League does? ;)
I think you know the real answer ... most fans around the league don't like Butler and are glad to see them go. I guess I can understand that, although I hope that hatred is based upon things done/said by fans and not based upon anything done by our athletes representing the school. You've always been open with your dislike of Butler, so you're probably in a better position to explain than I am. I never understood why someone would hate me or hate one of my kids just because they represent a certain college playing a game, so I try to never carry that attitude toward another school/team/individual.
But as I stated earlier, this is a divorce, and no matter what anyone claims it's very hard to get through one without harsh words or hurt feelings. That I do understand.
Another day goes by without any official announcement of Butler leaving on the HL website. I sincerely hope we are just waiting on confirmation of new schools joining, otherwise you really have to question the HL leadership...
Quote from: zvillehaze on May 31, 2012, 03:38:37 PM
Quote from: wh on May 31, 2012, 02:46:36 PM
Z-ville- When we left the Mid Con I recall many fans from other MC boards coming over and expressing their well wishes, telling us how they will miss us, etc. To date I haven't seen even one such well wish message on the Butler board. Given everything Butler has done for the league, how you single-handedly put the HL on the map, made us all lots of money, etc., how would you explain such deafening silence?
I don't think I said any of that stuff about Butler, although I won't deny that Butler did make a few $ for HL schools. I don't have an answer to your question, but I assume you're indicating that the Mid Con had classier fans than the Horizon League does? ;)
I think you know the real answer ... most fans around the league don't like Butler and are glad to see them go. I guess I can understand that, although I hope that hatred is based upon things done/said by fans and not based upon anything done by our athletes representing the school. You've always been open with your dislike of Butler, so you're probably in a better position to explain than I am. I never understood why someone would hate me or hate one of my kids just because they represent a certain college playing a game, so I try to never carry that attitude toward another school/team/individual.
But as I stated earlier, this is a divorce, and no matter what anyone claims it's very hard to get through one without harsh words or hurt feelings. That I do understand.
To be clear the strong league-wide dislike for Butler has nothing to do with you personally. That said, it has everything to do with the Butler fans message board. Think of it this way. If the 10 HL message boards were the 4077 M.A.S.H., the Butler board would be Maj. Charles Emerson Winchester III - haughty, arrogant, condescending, and dismissive toward everyone else in camp. He regularly makes it known that he is too good to be where he is. He gives no one else any credit or recognition. Finally the day comes when he leaves and despite all the things he accomplished and all the lives he saved, not one person extends a hand or sheds a tear as he fades into the sunset.
Quote from: wh on May 31, 2012, 05:44:41 PM
Quote from: zvillehaze on May 31, 2012, 03:38:37 PM
Quote from: wh on May 31, 2012, 02:46:36 PM
Z-ville- When we left the Mid Con I recall many fans from other MC boards coming over and expressing their well wishes, telling us how they will miss us, etc. To date I haven't seen even one such well wish message on the Butler board. Given everything Butler has done for the league, how you single-handedly put the HL on the map, made us all lots of money, etc., how would you explain such deafening silence?
I don't think I said any of that stuff about Butler, although I won't deny that Butler did make a few $ for HL schools. I don't have an answer to your question, but I assume you're indicating that the Mid Con had classier fans than the Horizon League does? ;)
I think you know the real answer ... most fans around the league don't like Butler and are glad to see them go. I guess I can understand that, although I hope that hatred is based upon things done/said by fans and not based upon anything done by our athletes representing the school. You've always been open with your dislike of Butler, so you're probably in a better position to explain than I am. I never understood why someone would hate me or hate one of my kids just because they represent a certain college playing a game, so I try to never carry that attitude toward another school/team/individual.
But as I stated earlier, this is a divorce, and no matter what anyone claims it's very hard to get through one without harsh words or hurt feelings. That I do understand.
To be clear the strong league-wide dislike for Butler has nothing to do with you personally. That said, it has everything to do with the Butler fans message board. Think of it this way. If the 10 HL message boards were the 4077 M.A.S.H., the Butler board would be Maj. Charles Emerson Winchester III - haughty, arrogant, condescending, and dismissive toward everyone else in camp. He regularly makes it known that he is too good to be where he is. He gives no one else any credit or recognition. Finally the day comes when he leaves and despite all the things he accomplished and all the lives he saved, not one person extends a hand or sheds a tear as he fades into the sunset.
I guess that's fair. FWIW, I don't like many of the posters on that board either. As a rule, the anonymity of message boards brings out the worst in people.
At the end of the day, Butler seems happy and the A-10 seems happy to have them. You (and apparently the other 8 HL teams) are happy Butler is leaving. Sounds like a win-win situation that is best for all. It also says a lot about why this needed to happen and why it unfolded the way it did. I guess we'll see if it works out like everyone hopes.
I'm a little late to join this thread, but I just had a thought in my head, and I apologize if it's already been covered, but...
Anyone know or care if the soccer teams will still play Butler? WSO and MSO released their schedules before the A-10 announcement, and Butler is still on each of their schedules online, and both still listed as conference opponents.
I wouldn't be surprised, though, if we already made some decision towards this and haven't changed the schedules yet. Aaron and Ryan have of course been busy w/ double championships in their main spring sports...
The only program that will probably never play Butler again is men's basketball. All other sports have traditionally played against them either every year, or every other year.
Truly disappointing to read most of this thread. ALL boards have knuckleheads, including Butler and Valpo. I like the Crusader's program and I hope Butler keeps up the series. Valpo, you had better sweep the season and league tournament next year....... as you are pretty much guaranteeing it now.
As for rankings, it is Butler that has top 25 rankings already in many polls, so I guess someone out there sees something you guys don't want to see.
As for the MyIndy TV coverage, 90% of those games were HOME games...... very rarely did AC and company do a road game, so let's get the facts straight.
Stay classy Valparaiso!
Butler scrambles to make early jump:
http://www.kansascity.com/2012/06/02/3638255/butler-scrambles-to-make-early.html (http://www.kansascity.com/2012/06/02/3638255/butler-scrambles-to-make-early.html)
Quote from: wh on June 02, 2012, 08:00:02 AM
Butler scrambles to make early jump:
http://www.kansascity.com/2012/06/02/3638255/butler-scrambles-to-make-early.html (http://www.kansascity.com/2012/06/02/3638255/butler-scrambles-to-make-early.html)
I thought it was interesting that Clarke thinks getting to the NCAAs will be EASIER in the A10 versus the Horizon. I suppose it does make sense if the Horizon is only going to be an auto-bid league. Everyone knows Valpo will get that so Butler would have to settle for the CIT or something once again.
i find it interesting that the a-10 doesn't allow its members to schedule non-d1 opponents. i like this idea personally. what are the odds the horizon will follow suit?
the article also says that the conference presidents only WANTED to cut their eligibility for conference tourney championships, not that it had actually taken place, which was the vibe i had gotten over the course of this thread. but i guess we'll never know, seeing as it seems both sides essentially agreed to a gag order.
the article also says that it's unlikely that the conference would add a 10th team this summer. so why's the office not made any sort of announcement yet? what could possibly be going on in indianapolis?
Quote from: vu72 on June 02, 2012, 08:16:54 AM
I thought it was interesting that Clarke thinks getting to the NCAAs will be EASIER in the A10 versus the Horizon. I suppose it does make sense if the Horizon is only going to be an auto-bid league. Everyone knows Valpo will get that so Butler would have to settle for the CIT or something once again.
I love when vu72 calls his shot! Lots of fans claim to support their teams, but he really backs it up! :clap: Just for the record, here are his predictions so far for the '12-'13 Valpo season, along the predictions I'd still like to hear:
1. Top 25 ranking.
2. Horizon league auto-bid to NCAA tournament.
3. NCAA tourney seeding? (need a prediction here).
4. NCAA tourney wins? (need a prediction here).
I realize this is probably a stupid bet, but I'll propose it to vu72 just to keep things interesting. I've got a crisp $20 bill that says Butler wins a game in the NCAA tournament before Valpo does. Given that Valpo is by far the better team/program, I should ask for 2 to 1 odds or something, but in the spirit of friendship and sportsmanship, I'll bet straight up. Deal? :thumbsup:
Quote from: vu72 on June 02, 2012, 08:16:54 AMQuote from: wh on June 02, 2012, 08:00:02 AMButler scrambles to make early jump: http://www.kansascity.com/2012/06/02/3638255/butler-scrambles-to-make-early.html (http://www.kansascity.com/2012/06/02/3638255/butler-scrambles-to-make-early.html)
I thought it was interesting that Clarke thinks getting to the NCAAs will be EASIER in the A10 versus the Horizon. I suppose it does make sense if the Horizon is only going to be an auto-bid league. Everyone knows Valpo will get that so Butler would have to settle for the CIT or something once again.
Come on 72... where did he say "Easier"? You know what he means by his comment:
"Like I said, the Horizon League deserves credit because it's a lot better league than people think," Clarke said. "But I think the Atlantic 10 will give us a better chance to get there (NCAA tourney), and it will give us more exposure, too."
Wow! Things must be slow on the Butler board--they are coming after me pretty hard ;). OK Haze, I'll take the bet. $20 buck on who wins an NCAA tourney game first. If it is both in the same round it is a push.
As for Nildogg, come on! What else could he have meant. An "easier chance"?? What he was saying is that as a second, third or fourth place team in the A10, Butler would have a shot at the tourney. If they don't win the Horizon their chances are low. If he thought winning the Horizon would be a cake walk don't you think he would have said something like..."we think we could win the Horizon but it would be tough. In the A10, being a second, third or fourth place team would still give us a chance."
That is what he meant and you know it. The path to the Horizon auto-bid goes through Valpo. The other path has various options. No disrespect, just facts.
Stevens comment before Butler decided to leave early:
"We certainly won't be picked to win that league (HL). We should not be picked to win that league.".
http://www.usatoday.com/video/brad-stevens-on-butlers-move-to-atlantic-10/1617946786001 (http://www.usatoday.com/video/brad-stevens-on-butlers-move-to-atlantic-10/1617946786001)
No doubt Butler should be significantly better next year, but so will Valpo. The starting 5 is back, including the Conf POY and the top center in the league. You picked up an amazing transfer, but we have added 3 quality BCS players ourselves. You guys are banking on your returning players being better, as you should. That said, why wouldn't ours improve to the same extent. In fact, in some cases you're hoping to see things you didn't see last year. IMO both teams should be significantly better. Given that we swept you last year, including 2 blowouts at the end of the season, wouldn't common sense say we should probably at least start the season a little more highly regarded. Apparently your coach thinks so. It's a shame we won't be able to settle it on the court.
Quote from: wh on June 03, 2012, 01:06:19 AMIt's a shame we won't be able to settle it on the court.
No truer words have been spoken here.
Judging by the amount of D.B. Butler fans on here, I don't doubt it that zvillehaze doesn't like most of the people on the Butler board.
But I don't have a problem with anybody here (at least since the guy I was mistaken for disappeared : ).
72 & wh, I love the talk! Keep it up--All My Rowdy ('n) Friends are comin' over to get your back.
Quote from: staxawax on June 01, 2012, 09:59:39 PM
Truly disappointing to read most of this thread. ALL boards have knuckleheads, including Butler and Valpo. I like the Crusader's program and I hope Butler keeps up the series. Valpo, you had better sweep the season and league tournament next year....... as you are pretty much guaranteeing it now.
As for rankings, it is Butler that has top 25 rankings already in many polls, so I guess someone out there sees something you guys don't want to see.
As for the MyIndy TV coverage, 90% of those games were HOME games...... very rarely did AC and company do a road game, so let's get the facts straight.
Stay classy Valparaiso!
Hey now, don't count all of us in that group. Some of us are not acting like jilted lovers. There are some of us here who respect what Butler is doing by moving to the A-10 and wish them success. I know I certainly do. I don't consider this move to be elitist or based on greed at all. It is simply a facilitation of a larger process. I hope we can schedule home and homes in the future.
It is clear that BU values the public vs. private academic distinction more so than a similarly situated school like VU. They want to raise their academic stature and athletically want to compete at a much higher level by virtue of a conference change. There's nothing wrong with that as an institutional value.
If you think my comments are ridiculous, then I guess the University of Hawaii's new Chancellor is an idiot too:
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/152106665.html?id=152106665 (http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/152106665.html?id=152106665)
Good luck in the A-10.
No way will Butler ever agree to schedule VU for a regular season game. No way. Why are some of you clinging to that?
Quote from: vu72 on June 02, 2012, 11:14:47 PM
Wow! Things must be slow on the Butler board--they are coming after me pretty hard ;). OK Haze, I'll take the bet. $20 buck on who wins an NCAA tourney game first. If it is both in the same round it is a push.
As for Nildogg, come on! What else could he have meant. An "easier chance"?? What he was saying is that as a second, third or fourth place team in the A10, Butler would have a shot at the tourney. If they don't win the Horizon their chances are low. If he thought winning the Horizon would be a cake walk don't you think he would have said something like..."we think we could win the Horizon but it would be tough. In the A10, being a second, third or fourth place team would still give us a chance."
That is what he meant and you know it. The path to the Horizon auto-bid goes through Valpo. The other path has various options. No disrespect, just facts.
Um...the path to the Horizon League auto bid goes through Valpo? Really? No disrespect intended here, but Valpo has never received the auto bid from the Horizon League, and even when they were the 1 seed...they didn't get it. I think it's a pretty bold statement considering it's something they've never done.
That being said, it's likely and they have as good a shot this year as ever to win the HL tournament
And the Butler people are right, it's a better opportunity to win an at large bid out of the A10 than the Horizon League. The A10 is just better overall. History backs up that statement. The move is good for Butler and bad for the Horizon League, but that the reality of the situation and everyone should move on. Butler's improved their lot in life, let's hope Valpo can do the same?
Quote from: Valpo89 on June 05, 2012, 09:01:09 PM
No way will Butler ever agree to schedule VU for a regular season game. No way. Why are some of you clinging to that?
I am not clinging to that in the slightest. Won't happen, and from Butler's perspective, shouldn't happen. What would they gain? Look at it this way, Valpo holds onto the winning streak for a very long time.
I know the barn door is closed on this and it's old news. But I stumbled on an ESPN-BOSTON story about the A-10 with Butler joining early that might interest some of you. Between the lines it points out the difference in outlook between the HL and the A-10.
Quick Points:
ESPN says the 2012-13 A-10 will be a "beast" with Butler
Conference Tourney will be in NYC
http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/colleges/post/_/id/2344/butler-coming-to-a-10-one-year-early (http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/colleges/post/_/id/2344/butler-coming-to-a-10-one-year-early)
Helped me better grasp the reasons behind Butler's move in the first place.
I know you guys are worried about things other than Butler, but thought I'd mention that ESPN Game Day will be visiting for the Butler- Gonzaga game. http://www.butlersports.com/sports/m-baskbl/2012-13/releases/080812aaa (http://www.butlersports.com/sports/m-baskbl/2012-13/releases/080812aaa) I'm sure Digger will be thrilled, since he was 1-2 in his last three visits to Hinkle. :lol:
You're barking up the wrong tree, zville. We have been told by many posters on this board that we should not be concerned with Butler anymore. I'm good with that.
Quote from: historyman on August 11, 2012, 11:09:29 PM
You're barking up the wrong tree, zville. We have been told by many posters on this board that we should not be concerned with Butler anymore. I'm good with that.
Sorry ... didn't mean to upset anyone over here. :-[ I'll find another tree to bark up. :thumbsup:
Quote from: zvillehaze on August 10, 2012, 09:53:55 PM
I know you guys are worried about things other than Butler, but thought I'd mention that ESPN Game Day will be visiting for the Butler- Gonzaga game. http://www.butlersports.com/sports/m-baskbl/2012-13/releases/080812aaa (http://www.butlersports.com/sports/m-baskbl/2012-13/releases/080812aaa) I'm sure Digger will be thrilled, since he was 1-2 in his last three visits to Hinkle. :lol:
Some of us still care, and as an Indy resident, I might try to make it down to check it out. As far as I'm concerned, keep us posted
Quote from: zvillehaze on June 02, 2012, 10:22:34 AM
Quote from: vu72 on June 02, 2012, 08:16:54 AM
I thought it was interesting that Clarke thinks getting to the NCAAs will be EASIER in the A10 versus the Horizon. I suppose it does make sense if the Horizon is only going to be an auto-bid league. Everyone knows Valpo will get that so Butler would have to settle for the CIT or something once again.
I love when vu72 calls his shot! Lots of fans claim to support their teams, but he really backs it up! :clap: Just for the record, here are his predictions so far for the '12-'13 Valpo season, along the predictions I'd still like to hear:
1. Top 25 ranking.
2. Horizon league auto-bid to NCAA tournament.
3. NCAA tourney seeding? (need a prediction here).
4. NCAA tourney wins? (need a prediction here).
I realize this is probably a stupid bet, but I'll propose it to vu72 just to keep things interesting. I've got a crisp $20 bill that says Butler wins a game in the NCAA tournament before Valpo does. Given that Valpo is by far the better team/program, I should ask for 2 to 1 odds or something, but in the spirit of friendship and sportsmanship, I'll bet straight up. Deal? :thumbsup:
Quote from: vu72 on June 02, 2012, 11:14:47 PM
Wow! Things must be slow on the Butler board--they are coming after me pretty hard ;). OK Haze, I'll take the bet. $20 buck on who wins an NCAA tourney game first. If it is both in the same round it is a push.
Just bumping to acknowledge vu72 being correct about Valpo earning the Horizon's automatic bid. That's my :twocents: ... we'll see if vu72 offers up his :twocents: x 1,000 ! ;D
Ouch...Reality bites.
Quote from: zvillehaze on March 22, 2013, 09:22:15 PM
Quote from: zvillehaze on June 02, 2012, 10:22:34 AM
Quote from: vu72 on June 02, 2012, 08:16:54 AM
I thought it was interesting that Clarke thinks getting to the NCAAs will be EASIER in the A10 versus the Horizon. I suppose it does make sense if the Horizon is only going to be an auto-bid league. Everyone knows Valpo will get that so Butler would have to settle for the CIT or something once again.
I love when vu72 calls his shot! Lots of fans claim to support their teams, but he really backs it up! :clap: Just for the record, here are his predictions so far for the '12-'13 Valpo season, along the predictions I'd still like to hear:
1. Top 25 ranking.
2. Horizon league auto-bid to NCAA tournament.
3. NCAA tourney seeding? (need a prediction here).
4. NCAA tourney wins? (need a prediction here).
I realize this is probably a stupid bet, but I'll propose it to vu72 just to keep things interesting. I've got a crisp $20 bill that says Butler wins a game in the NCAA tournament before Valpo does. Given that Valpo is by far the better team/program, I should ask for 2 to 1 odds or something, but in the spirit of friendship and sportsmanship, I'll bet straight up. Deal? :thumbsup:
Quote from: vu72 on June 02, 2012, 11:14:47 PM
Wow! Things must be slow on the Butler board--they are coming after me pretty hard ;). OK Haze, I'll take the bet. $20 buck on who wins an NCAA tourney game first. If it is both in the same round it is a push.
Just bumping to acknowledge vu72 being correct about Valpo earning the Horizon's automatic bid. That's my :twocents: ... we'll see if vu72 offers up his :twocents: x 1,000 ! ;D
Consider it "offered up'. I'm a man of my word and you were right. PM me you name and address and the 20 "will be in the mail"!!
Just wondering, with Clarke and Smith gone (others??), what are you thinking concerning next year for that school in Indy?
Quote from: vu72 on March 24, 2013, 02:04:03 PM
Quote from: zvillehaze on March 22, 2013, 09:22:15 PM
Quote from: zvillehaze on June 02, 2012, 10:22:34 AM
Quote from: vu72 on June 02, 2012, 08:16:54 AM
I thought it was interesting that Clarke thinks getting to the NCAAs will be EASIER in the A10 versus the Horizon. I suppose it does make sense if the Horizon is only going to be an auto-bid league. Everyone knows Valpo will get that so Butler would have to settle for the CIT or something once again.
I love when vu72 calls his shot! Lots of fans claim to support their teams, but he really backs it up! :clap: Just for the record, here are his predictions so far for the '12-'13 Valpo season, along the predictions I'd still like to hear:
1. Top 25 ranking.
2. Horizon league auto-bid to NCAA tournament.
3. NCAA tourney seeding? (need a prediction here).
4. NCAA tourney wins? (need a prediction here).
I realize this is probably a stupid bet, but I'll propose it to vu72 just to keep things interesting. I've got a crisp $20 bill that says Butler wins a game in the NCAA tournament before Valpo does. Given that Valpo is by far the better team/program, I should ask for 2 to 1 odds or something, but in the spirit of friendship and sportsmanship, I'll bet straight up. Deal? :thumbsup:
Quote from: vu72 on June 02, 2012, 11:14:47 PM
Wow! Things must be slow on the Butler board--they are coming after me pretty hard ;). OK Haze, I'll take the bet. $20 buck on who wins an NCAA tourney game first. If it is both in the same round it is a push.
Just bumping to acknowledge vu72 being correct about Valpo earning the Horizon's automatic bid. That's my :twocents: ... we'll see if vu72 offers up his :twocents: x 1,000 ! ;D
Consider it "offered up'. I'm a man of my word and you were right. PM me you name and address and the 20 "will be in the mail"!!
Just wondering, with Clarke and Smith gone (others??), what are you thinking concerning next year for that school in Indy?
You're an honorable guy, vu72. Here's what you can do ... send that $20 (and any additional amount you'd like to kick in ;) ) to the Valpo Athletic department, earmarked for the "Keep Bryce as Coach" fund. Deal?
IMO, Butler will take a step back next year ... won't be easy to replace the production of Clarke and Smith. Making the tournament would be a great accomplishment. Looking at the big picture, I think the program is in very good shape. (Similar view on Valpo ... likely to step back next year, but program heading in the right direction as long as my $20 entices Bryce to stay around! ;D )
FWIW
Butler just lost their Associate Head Coach Matt Graves to Southern Alabama.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9096549/butler-bulldogs-matthew-graves-hired-south-alabama-jaguars-report-says (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9096549/butler-bulldogs-matthew-graves-hired-south-alabama-jaguars-report-says)