Youngstown by 30+. Book it! :'(
I don't think Valpo loses to YSU by 30 or more. This Valpo team will execute better next week and not give up. Youngstown may get out to a 35 or 42 point lead but I truly believe that when the Penguins put in their 2nd and 3rd strings the Crusaders will rally and close the gap to 21 or 24 points. Of course that is no where near a victory but it won't be the 60+ point loss they had last year. Valpo will have to settle for a moral victory but going from a 60+ point loss to a much more comfortable (and obviously unsatisfying) 20+ point loss will be a positive they will be able to take away from the game. Hopefully nobody will get injured badly and the rest of the PFL will be put on notice that Valpo will not be the pushover that they were last year.
Valpo didn't lose to St.Joe by 30+ points, did they?
Quote from: historyman on August 26, 2012 08:17:14 PM
Look for a fairly even battle with St.Joe probably pulling out the victory unless Valpo's improvement is much greater than anticipated.
vs. St. Joe
Setshot: Although I'm hoping for a Valpo win,i'll predict that St. Joe beats Valpo by 10+ pts.
Result: Loss by 2.
Therefore: Setshot is off by at least 8 pts.
vs. YSU
Setshot: Youngstown by 30+. Book it!
Therefore, by the transitive and commutative properties of addition and such, I pronounce historyman to be right when he says YSU by (about) 22.
I'm hoping for closer this year, but leaning towards setshot prediction (unfortunately):
Valpo 17
YSU 49
Unfortunately, we have never done well against the scholarship side, even with good teams:
YSU 56
Valpo 14
77-13 and that's if YSU''s being nice. YSU was nice last year, and it really could have been worse. I think anybody who followed that game knows that. YSU is better than last year, and in case you weren't aware they return all 5 offensive lineman, their top wide receiver, their top running back AND thier starting quarterback. Valpo won't stay with 21 in the first quarter, yet alone the game.
*Prediction - Youngstown State beats Pittsburgh tomorrow (and yes I mean the Pitt Panthers)
Quote from: milanmiracle on August 31, 2012, 06:32:18 PM
77-13 and that's if YSU''s being nice. YSU was nice last year, and it really could have been worse. I think anybody who followed that game knows that. YSU is better than last year, and in case you weren't aware they return all 5 offensive lineman, their top wide receiver, their top running back AND thier starting quarterback. Valpo won't stay with 21 in the first quarter, yet alone the game.
*Prediction - Youngstown State beats Pittsburgh tomorrow (and yes I mean the Pitt Panthers)
two and a half minutes into the 4th quarter, and ysu is up 28-10 on pitt. so yeah, we're gonna get our asses kicked next weekend. sorry, but it's true.
Youngstown State 31 Pitt 17
So can we all agree now that scheduling YSU is a BAD idea? Not only did they beat Pitt easily, but they did it by running at them. 204 yards on the ground and they controlled the line of scrimmage. Zero sacks allowed and minimal pressure from Pitt. Aaron Donald was a non factor the whole game as well. This is the return to the Tressel era YSU and until Coach Wolford is gone, they need to be off the VU schedule.
If I thought YSU would try, I'd say they'd hit 100, but they will play the managers and trainers about midway through the second quarter.
Yeah I saw that YSU win over Pitt and wondered if you guys had seen it.
I just hope that none of the key Valpo guys get hurt in this game. I can't see why Valpo scheduled YSU once let alone twice. Is it all for $? Even if no one gets hurt, the game will throw any offensive timing and momentum completely out of sync. At least losing to hoops to Duke or Kansas doesn't often inflict pain or broken bones.
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 01, 2012, 08:30:05 PM
Youngstown State 31 Pitt 17
So can we all agree now that scheduling YSU is a BAD idea? Not only did they beat Pitt easily, but they did it by running at them. 204 yards on the ground and they controlled the line of scrimmage. Zero sacks allowed and minimal pressure from Pitt. Aaron Donald was a non factor the whole game as well. This is the return to the Tressel era YSU and until Coach Wolford is gone, they need to be off the VU schedule.
If I thought YSU would try, I'd say they'd hit 100, but they will play the managers and trainers about midway through the second quarter.
talk about adding insult to injury. not only did they go into pitt and win, they got paid to do it. youngstown got a $400k paycheck to beat the panthers.
Hope the paycheck is worth it at YSU and the cost to VU in terms of injury is minimal. See my post on the PFL
Milan -- Road Kill it is after this week's drubbings.
Just looking at the YSU depth chart and the offensive line is BIG. That certainly helps the running game following the road graders up front. The backups aren't any smaller either. That will be the biggest challenge for the defense...keeping them from literally plowing them into the ground
LT 6'6 320
LG 6'3 315
C 6'3 295
RG 6'4 290
RT 6'6 315
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 03, 2012, 10:29:38 AM
Just looking at the YSU depth chart and the offensive line is BIG. That certainly helps the running game following the road graders up front. The backups aren't any smaller either. That will be the biggest challenge for the defense...keeping them from literally plowing them into the ground
LT 6'6 320
LG 6'3 315
C 6'3 295
RG 6'4 290
RT 6'6 315
Our Front 7 against that looks like this based on the 2-Deep:
DE 6'4" - 245
DT 6'3" - 300
DE 6'1" - 240
OLB 5'11" - 175
ILB 5'11" - 220
ILB 6'0" - 215
OLB 6'2" - 220
ouch.
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 03, 2012, 10:50:48 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 03, 2012, 10:29:38 AM
Just looking at the YSU depth chart and the offensive line is BIG. That certainly helps the running game following the road graders up front. The backups aren't any smaller either. That will be the biggest challenge for the defense...keeping them from literally plowing them into the ground
LT 6'6 320
LG 6'3 315
C 6'3 295
RG 6'4 290
RT 6'6 315
Our Front 7 against that looks like this based on the 2-Deep:
DE 6'4" - 245
DT 6'3" - 300
DE 6'1" - 240
OLB 5'11" - 175
ILB 5'11" - 220
ILB 6'0" - 215
OLB 6'2" - 220
ouch.
we're screwed. no way we get any pressure with that o-line.
Quote from: vuweathernerd on September 02, 2012, 07:01:43 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 01, 2012, 08:30:05 PM
Youngstown State 31 Pitt 17
So can we all agree now that scheduling YSU is a BAD idea? Not only did they beat Pitt easily, but they did it by running at them. 204 yards on the ground and they controlled the line of scrimmage. Zero sacks allowed and minimal pressure from Pitt. Aaron Donald was a non factor the whole game as well. This is the return to the Tressel era YSU and until Coach Wolford is gone, they need to be off the VU schedule.
If I thought YSU would try, I'd say they'd hit 100, but they will play the managers and trainers about midway through the second quarter.
talk about adding insult to injury. not only did they go into pitt and win, they got paid to do it. youngstown got a $400k paycheck to beat the panthers.
Maybe we should do the same! Get paid to go into YSU - and WIN!!!
Quote from: covufan on September 03, 2012, 08:10:30 PM
Quote from: vuweathernerd on September 02, 2012, 07:01:43 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 01, 2012, 08:30:05 PM
Youngstown State 31 Pitt 17
So can we all agree now that scheduling YSU is a BAD idea? Not only did they beat Pitt easily, but they did it by running at them. 204 yards on the ground and they controlled the line of scrimmage. Zero sacks allowed and minimal pressure from Pitt. Aaron Donald was a non factor the whole game as well. This is the return to the Tressel era YSU and until Coach Wolford is gone, they need to be off the VU schedule.
If I thought YSU would try, I'd say they'd hit 100, but they will play the managers and trainers about midway through the second quarter.
talk about adding insult to injury. not only did they go into pitt and win, they got paid to do it. youngstown got a $400k paycheck to beat the panthers.
Maybe we should do the same! Get paid to go into YSU - and WIN!!!
i'm not sure if this is supposed to be a vote of confidence or just damn crazy.
My guess is that the result of this game will be about 70-6, though there is certainly a chance that it could "eclipse" the 84-0 pasting of Oklahoma State over Savannah State.
When people talk about Valpo somehow having a respectable football program, they need to consider how far below other non-scholarship schools Valpo is. Butler lost at Western Illinois (same conference as Youngstown St.) by 23-15 and were driving at the end.
Quote from: vuweathernerd on September 03, 2012, 08:50:34 PM
Quote from: covufan on September 03, 2012, 08:10:30 PM
Quote from: vuweathernerd on September 02, 2012, 07:01:43 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 01, 2012, 08:30:05 PM
Youngstown State 31 Pitt 17
So can we all agree now that scheduling YSU is a BAD idea? Not only did they beat Pitt easily, but they did it by running at them. 204 yards on the ground and they controlled the line of scrimmage. Zero sacks allowed and minimal pressure from Pitt. Aaron Donald was a non factor the whole game as well. This is the return to the Tressel era YSU and until Coach Wolford is gone, they need to be off the VU schedule.
If I thought YSU would try, I'd say they'd hit 100, but they will play the managers and trainers about midway through the second quarter.
talk about adding insult to injury. not only did they go into pitt and win, they got paid to do it. youngstown got a $400k paycheck to beat the panthers.
Maybe we should do the same! Get paid to go into YSU - and WIN!!!
i'm not sure if this is supposed to be a vote of confidence or just damn crazy.
Ha! Somewhere in between. Sometimes teams coming off an upset like YSU over Pitt might stumble in their next game. Not sure Valpo is the PFL team that could come into YSU and perform that trick, but you never know. I'm sure Pitt didn't schedule YSU thinking they would get beat, which is the same for YSU and Valpo.
Quote from: vuweathernerd on September 03, 2012, 08:50:34 PM
Quote from: covufan on September 03, 2012, 08:10:30 PM
Quote from: vuweathernerd on September 02, 2012, 07:01:43 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 01, 2012, 08:30:05 PM
Youngstown State 31 Pitt 17
So can we all agree now that scheduling YSU is a BAD idea? Not only did they beat Pitt easily, but they did it by running at them. 204 yards on the ground and they controlled the line of scrimmage. Zero sacks allowed and minimal pressure from Pitt. Aaron Donald was a non factor the whole game as well. This is the return to the Tressel era YSU and until Coach Wolford is gone, they need to be off the VU schedule.
If I thought YSU would try, I'd say they'd hit 100, but they will play the managers and trainers about midway through the second quarter.
talk about adding insult to injury. not only did they go into pitt and win, they got paid to do it. youngstown got a $400k paycheck to beat the panthers.
Maybe we should do the same! Get paid to go into YSU - and WIN!!!
i'm not sure if this is supposed to be a vote of confidence or just damn crazy.
I'll go with option B, but my guess is they've never actually seen YSU...play.
Quote from: vu84v2 on September 03, 2012, 08:58:59 PM
My guess is that the result of this game will be about 70-6, though there is certainly a chance that it could "eclipse" the 84-0 pasting of Oklahoma State over Savannah State.
When people talk about Valpo somehow having a respectable football program, they need to consider how far below other non-scholarship schools Valpo is. Butler lost at Western Illinois (same conference as Youngstown St.) by 23-15 and were driving at the end.
And Northern Iowa lost by 5 to #12 Wisconsin (same conference as Youngstown St.)
You meant Northern Iowa
This week's Sports Network FCS ranking update:
YSU Penguins moved from #13 to #6 and received 7 first place votes for 2,988 points.
Dayton received 12 points; Duquesne got 7 points; SDU 2 and Drake 1. Drake takes on #3 Montana State Saturday and will not receive any points from that point on. Dayton and Duquesne go at each other - one will probably drop out of the poll.
Didn't know this before but Paul Oren is a Pioneer voting representative.
This is from the VU Football Facebook site. If you are not too squeamish you can watch the YSU game live at the following site:
http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/ysu.portal (http://client.stretchinternet.com/client/ysu.portal)
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 04, 2012, 07:24:42 AM
This week's Sports Network FCS ranking update:
YSU Penguins moved from #13 to #6 and received 7 first place votes for 2,988 points.
Dayton received 12 points; Duquesne got 7 points; SDU 2 and Drake 1. Drake takes on #3 Montana State Saturday and will not receive any points from that point on. Dayton and Duquesne go at each other - one will probably drop out of the poll.
Didn't know this before but Paul Oren is a Pioneer voting representative.
Do you have a link to the Sports Network FCS ranking? Thanks!
Quote from: covufan on September 04, 2012, 11:19:08 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 04, 2012, 07:24:42 AM
This week's Sports Network FCS ranking update:
YSU Penguins moved from #13 to #6 and received 7 first place votes for 2,988 points.
Dayton received 12 points; Duquesne got 7 points; SDU 2 and Drake 1. Drake takes on #3 Montana State Saturday and will not receive any points from that point on. Dayton and Duquesne go at each other - one will probably drop out of the poll.
Didn't know this before but Paul Oren is a Pioneer voting representative.
Do you have a link to the Sports Network FCS ranking? Thanks!
http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/misc/tsn-div-1aa-poll.htm (http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/misc/tsn-div-1aa-poll.htm)
On the same note, you can rewatch the Youngstown State vs. Pitt game on watch ESPN app. If you haven't seen YSU play, I think it's worth watching at least some of it. If watching them against Pitt scares anybody else as much as it does me...
With all 11 starters on offense returning, and the D being able to control the line of scrimmage...I really don't know how they're going to lose this year.
Greetings from Y-town. I've read all the posts on topics about this weeks game with the "guins. I must admit I am a little dismayed at the attitude of most fans here! I would think that you would welcome the opportunity, as well as the payday. YSU has played major FBS schools for several years now, and most times resulting in an a$$ whipping. Specifically. the last two times we played Pitt. No one ever blinked, and I have NEVER heard one soul on any penguin forum say we shouldn't schedule these schools. Win or lose, the game day atmosphere, exposure, and experience these kids get out of it are well worth it. As for your concerns for the safety of the players, Has anyone ever really been maimed in the game against Youngstown? If so then tell me, as I am ignorant of that fact. As for running up the score? I don't think the coach will do that. If we are fortunate to be in the lead by a few TD's, you can't very well put in a second or third team player and tell him not to score?!? 'specially if he sits on the bench all year. Anyway, good luck and play safe crusaders..........
I agree with our YSU friend. This college athletics not pop Warner. There should be no mercy. I don't even think YSU should put in their bench guys until Valpo does. It is laughable that there has been discussion about players possibly getting hurt, it's football. It is a barbaric sport and every player knows the risk. These guys want to play YSU and see how they stack up against bigger players, and if they didn't want to compete I would hope Coach would cut them loose. Keep playing YSU, keep getting whipped, learn from it.
I have always been a strong supporter of 'scheduling up' in all of our sports. It has done wonders for our baseball program to play top teams over the last few years, and makes it much easier to compete within conference after playing that level of team (Arkansas, Hawaii, etc). Though football is a bit different in not being scholarship, I think that it is a great selling point to kids to say that they will play the big boys of their division. It isn't like this is an 18 year old HS team playing a 12 year old middle school team, they shouldn't get any more injured than a normal game just because they are on scholarships...
Quote from: KilrpengWin on September 04, 2012, 07:58:13 PM
Greetings from Y-town. I've read all the posts on topics about this weeks game with the "guins. I must admit I am a little dismayed at the attitude of most fans here! I would think that you would welcome the opportunity, as well as the payday. YSU has played major FBS schools for several years now, and most times resulting in an a$$ whipping. Specifically. the last two times we played Pitt. No one ever blinked, and I have NEVER heard one soul on any penguin forum say we shouldn't schedule these schools. Win or lose, the game day atmosphere, exposure, and experience these kids get out of it are well worth it. As for your concerns for the safety of the players, Has anyone ever really been maimed in the game against Youngstown? If so then tell me, as I am ignorant of that fact. As for running up the score? I don't think the coach will do that. If we are fortunate to be in the lead by a few TD's, you can't very well put in a second or third team player and tell him not to score?!? 'specially if he sits on the bench all year. Anyway, good luck and play safe crusaders..........
I am a little dismayed anybody from YSU thinks this game is a good idea. 77-13 and that was being nice. It was 63-0 at half and 35-0 at the end of the 1st quarter. There were school records for points scored in a quarter and points scored in a half. Youngstown scored touchdowns on 9 straight posessions, and the only thing that stopped them from scoring touchdowns in 11 straight possessions was getting the ball back with 0:25 left in the half. YSU then scored touchdowns on their next 2 possessions. The Pitt A$$ kicking you were refering to was 43-0 at the end of the game not at the beginning of the second quarter.
Somebody mentioned that this isn't 18 year old high school kids playing 12 year old pop warner kids, and that's very true. They're the same age playing the same sport. However I would venture to say that it's more like a high school team vs. a D1 college team. Valpo won 2 games in 3 years and that includes losing to a D3 school. While on paper I am techinally bigger than Mike Tyson, I certainly wouldn't want to get in a ring with him, even now. I highly doubt Valpo U could beat Cardinal Mooney, yet alone YSU.
Most recent Valpo Coaches Show on YouTube discusses upcoming YSU game and reasons for scheduling FCS scholarship schools.
The Valpo Coaches Show 9|03|12 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62L4HbjSRlk#ws)
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 05, 2012, 05:41:25 AM
I am a little dismayed anybody from YSU thinks this game is a good idea. 77-13 and that was being nice. It was 63-0 at half and 35-0 at the end of the 1st quarter.
The unfortunate thing about geography is that we are smack dab in the middle of MVFC territory. At this point in the reestablishment of a strong VU football program, I'd much prefer scheduling NEC or Patriot teams (programs with fewer scholarships) to start the climb up. Duquesne, in our case is a good match for the program to get it's experience under fire. Robert Morris is another from the western PA area we should have on our schedule. Show that we can compete against NEC and Patriot teams and then take on the bigger challenges of OVFC, MVFC and Big Sky. Of course the biggies can pay out guarantees that help underwrite the program while the NEC and Patriot can't. Also in that future I refer to, I'd like to see a resumption of games with Indiana State (it'll be like the old ICC days).
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 05, 2012, 07:44:38 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 05, 2012, 05:41:25 AM
I am a little dismayed anybody from YSU thinks this game is a good idea. 77-13 and that was being nice. It was 63-0 at half and 35-0 at the end of the 1st quarter.
The unfortunate thing about geography is that we are smack dab in the middle of MVFC territory. At this point in the reestablishment of a strong VU football program, I'd much prefer scheduling NEC or Patriot teams (programs with fewer scholarships) to start the climb up. Duquesne, in our case is a good match for the program to get it's experience under fire. Robert Morris is another from the western PA area we should have on our schedule. Show that we can compete against NEC and Patriot teams and then take on the bigger challenges of OVFC, MVFC and Big Sky. Of course the biggies can pay out guarantees that help underwrite the program while the NEC and Patriot can't. Also in that future I refer to, I'd like to see a resumption of games with Indiana State (it'll be like the old ICC days).
I tend to agree. Although Indiana St. is no longer the I-AA (FCS) pushover in the MVFC. They only lost to IU by 7, in Bloomington. If $$ were not an issue, I'd be scheduling only FCS programs, and those from NEC, Patriot and SWAC. I'd probably look to those areas of the country where we have been recruiting (letting some players return home once in awhile) and those we'd like to recruit better - and look for an NEC, Patriot or SWAC team to schedule.
Quote from: covufan on September 05, 2012, 08:49:50 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 05, 2012, 07:44:38 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 05, 2012, 05:41:25 AM
I am a little dismayed anybody from YSU thinks this game is a good idea. 77-13 and that was being nice. It was 63-0 at half and 35-0 at the end of the 1st quarter.
The unfortunate thing about geography is that we are smack dab in the middle of MVFC territory. At this point in the reestablishment of a strong VU football program, I'd much prefer scheduling NEC or Patriot teams (programs with fewer scholarships) to start the climb up. Duquesne, in our case is a good match for the program to get it's experience under fire. Robert Morris is another from the western PA area we should have on our schedule. Show that we can compete against NEC and Patriot teams and then take on the bigger challenges of OVFC, MVFC and Big Sky. Of course the biggies can pay out guarantees that help underwrite the program while the NEC and Patriot can't. Also in that future I refer to, I'd like to see a resumption of games with Indiana State (it'll be like the old ICC days).
I tend to agree. Although Indiana St. is no longer the I-AA (FCS) pushover in the MVFC. They only lost to IU by 7, in Bloomington. If $$ were not an issue, I'd be scheduling only FCS programs, and those from NEC, Patriot and SWAC. I'd probably look to those areas of the country where we have been recruiting (letting some players return home once in awhile) and those we'd like to recruit better - and look for an NEC, Patriot or SWAC team to schedule.
Oh, and until the VU football program is a little better, I'd focus on the bottom half of these conferences. I'd also sell the opponents coming to Valpo as a chance to be playing in the greater Chicago area - where I'm sure most schools would have a significant alumni base.
`It's clear here that few Crusader fans relish their team playing YSU for several reasons. One of you posters replied that on paper you were the same size as Mike Tyson but wouldn't want to get in a ring with him? (probably afraid to lose an ear) :lol: But seriously, does anyone know, or anyone there asked any of the players? From my knowledge, there is no YSU player who doesn't WANT the opportunity to play a BIGGER school. Too bad you can't take a poll of athletes, and only get their reaction ?????
{ "It's clear here that few Crusader fans relish their team playing YSU for several reasons. One of you posters replied that on paper you were the same size as Mike Tyson but wouldn't want to get in a ring with him? (probably afraid to lose an ear) But seriously, does anyone know, or anyone there asked any of the players? From my knowledge, there is no YSU player who doesn't WANT the opportunity to play a BIGGER school. Too bad you can't take a poll of athletes, and only get their reaction ??" }
I'm sure they want to play YSU because they get to go on that field in front of 20,000 spectators and play against scholarship athletes. They know they'll get beat but they want that experience. And there's something about the optimism of youth too. Who could blame them.
Most of us, on the other hand, are looking at a bigger picture. Valpo is trying to dig itself out of a very deep winless hole and a recent history of less than mediocrity (2-32 since 2009, 10-46 since 2007) while playing at a level two FCS tiers below YSU (the middle tier being the NEC and Patriot League who have limited their scholarship levels to less than what is available in the MVFC). In those past seasons we've lost to D-II and D-III teams and NAIA teams, which technically are at levels below us. YSU goes into FBS territory to test itself against the biggies. It does this knowing it competes well. And your players learn something from the experience that translates to better performance when they get back to MVFC action. This is not a test for Valpo. What do the players learn when they are crushed in all phases of the game, defeated on just about every play, unable to use their skills because they are facing overwhelming talent? They may 'learn' or begin to believe that they're just not very good -- just the opposite of what a rebuilding program needs. No, this game is not a progressive building block -- at least not yet.
For VU at this critical rebuilding juncture, yes, we need to challenge ourselves, but first at a level of competition we realistically aspire to. It's the crawl, walk, run axiom. We are at crawl. If we were a San Diego or a Dayton, it would not be as crucial and would make more sense, but we are digging out of that deep hole and the confidence factor in rebuilding is an issue. As an example, this season Marist from our league beat Bryant (NEC) this past weekend, plays Bucknell of the Patriot League at home and then challenges Columbia of the Ivy League -- these are great challenges at a reasonable level. We've got Duquesne (NEC) next week, which is a good challenge for us. Robert Morris (PA) would be another good one for us. Once we climb over the edge of this hole we're in, then it really makes sense to go back to MVFC and OVFC teams again to begin the process of testing ourselves. But not right now. Give us a couple of years of rebuilding and then we'll see.
Of course much of this is moot because the contracts were signed years ago. Then VU won a few games and YSU was losing. Clearly both are not the same programs today.
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 05, 2012, 11:21:51 AM
{ "It's clear here that few Crusader fans relish their team playing YSU for several reasons. One of you posters replied that on paper you were the same size as Mike Tyson but wouldn't want to get in a ring with him? (probably afraid to lose an ear) But seriously, does anyone know, or anyone there asked any of the players? From my knowledge, there is no YSU player who doesn't WANT the opportunity to play a BIGGER school. Too bad you can't take a poll of athletes, and only get their reaction ??" }
I'm sure they want to play YSU because they get to go on that field in front of 20,000 spectators and play against scholarship athletes. They know they'll get beat but they want that experience. And there's something about the optimism of youth too. Who could blame them.
Most of us, on the other hand, are looking at a bigger picture. Valpo is trying to dig itself out of a very deep winless hole and a recent history of less than mediocrity (2-32 since 2009, 10-46 since 2007) while playing at a level two FCS tiers below YSU (the middle tier being the NEC and Patriot League who have limited their scholarship levels to less than what is available in the MVFC). In those past seasons we've lost to D-II and D-III teams and NAIA teams, which technically are at levels below us. YSU goes into FBS territory to test itself against the biggies. It does this knowing it competes well. And your players learn something from the experience that translates to better performance when they get back to MVFC action. This is not a test for Valpo. What do the players learn when they are crushed in all phases of the game, defeated on just about every play, unable to use their skills because they are facing overwhelming talent? They may 'learn' or begin to believe that they're just not very good -- just the opposite of what a rebuilding program needs. No, this game is not a progressive building block -- at least not yet.
For VU at this critical rebuilding juncture, yes, we need to challenge ourselves, but first at a level of competition we realistically aspire to. It's the crawl, walk, run axiom. We are at crawl. If we were a San Diego or a Dayton, it would not be as crucial and would make more sense, but we are digging out of that deep hole and the confidence factor in rebuilding is an issue. As an example, this season Marist from our league beat Bryant (NEC) this past weekend, plays Bucknell of the Patriot League at home and then challenges Columbia of the Ivy League -- these are great challenges at a reasonable level. We've got Duquesne (NEC) next week, which is a good challenge for us. Robert Morris (PA) would be another good one for us. Once we climb over the edge of this hole we're in, then it really makes sense to go back to MVFC and OVFC teams again to begin the process of testing ourselves. But not right now. Give us a couple of years of rebuilding and then we'll see.
Of course much of this is moot because the contracts were signed years ago. Then VU won a few games and YSU was losing. Clearly both are not the same programs today.
Very well said!
Good grief! We have already spent years trying to dig ourselves out of a hole. Isn't it about time to fill in the hole,plant our feet firmly on the ground and DROP FOOTBALL! :banghead:
Quote from: setshot on Today at 07:08:53 PM
Good grief! We have already spent years trying to dig ourselves out of a hole. Isn't it about time to fill in the hole,plant our feet firmly on the ground and DROP FOOTBALL!
No!
You're just like the reporter from channel 19 in Peoria, no matter how many times you ask the question that doesn't change the answer. Alec Peters may not go to Illinois State and Valpo is not going to drop football. They've gone this far. Why drop football now when some progress is being made?
Progress=almost winning a game. Valpo won't drop football because it is a money maker. Hopefully they can get back to winning multiple games this year. A college campus is better when football is present and successful.
Quote from: setshot on September 05, 2012, 06:08:53 PM
Good grief! We have already spent years trying to dig ourselves out of a hole. Isn't it about time to fill in the hole,plant our feet firmly on the ground and DROP FOOTBALL! :banghead:
No friggin way ss. There is a 92 year history that says no. Carlson has the mentality, dedication, organization, management and communication style, and big picture concept to move this program forward. He needs the administration to make a financial commitment to upgrade facilities and staff (which translates to even better recruiting results) that is equal to the other programs we compete against. I continually monitor the other PFL programs and especially the newer ones. The facilities and the commitment dollars are so far ahead of VU at this point it is ridiculous (check out the new or expanded stadiums at Jacksonville, Campbell and Mercer), but I believe Mark will direct more $$ toward FB because it truly has the potential to be a much better program due ot the leadership that's in place and the young talent that has enrolled.
Case in point. We scheduled YSU for two games back when they were suffering losing seasons. At the time we were winning 3 and 5 games a season (an analysis of the wins showed that they were largely non-conference, D-III wins). But in the interim YSU committed $$ to facilities (big bucks actually) and the other intangibles. By 2011 and 2012 they are pushing Michigan State and beating Pitt and were back to the Tressel years level. But since the contract signing VU spiraled further downward. Now we are just beginning to rebuild. The previous game against STJ was a 50-7 loss. Last Thursday we should have won, but because of youthful inexperience we gave up the winning TD with less than 2 minutes to play. It's coming. We will be better. For a fact, the future schedule will no longer include D-III teams. Our program will be competitive at the lower end of FCS. We will play Patriot, NEC and possibly Ivy League teams regularly. Once we get past YSU on Saturday, I think you'll see much tighter games and a couple of wins this year. Duquesne has a 36 scholarship limit. But we could still beat them on our turf next week. Next year, we'll be even more competitive against a MVFC team and you might even see a .500 or better record overall. It's taken longer than expected to turn this thing around, but it is happening.
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 05, 2012, 09:59:23 PM
Quote from: setshot on September 05, 2012, 06:08:53 PM
Good grief! We have already spent years trying to dig ourselves out of a hole. Isn't it about time to fill in the hole,plant our feet firmly on the ground and DROP FOOTBALL! :banghead:
No friggin way ss. There is a 92 year history that says no. Carlson has the mentality, dedication, organization, management and communication style, and big picture concept to move this program forward. He needs the administration to make a financial commitment to upgrade facilities and staff (which translates to even better recruiting results) that is equal to the other programs we compete against. I continually monitor the other PFL programs and especially the newer ones. The facilities and the commitment dollars are so far ahead of VU at this point it is ridiculous (check out the new or expanded stadiums at Jacksonville, Campbell and Mercer), but I believe Mark will direct more $$ toward FB because it truly has the potential to be a much better program due ot the leadership that's in place and the young talent that has enrolled.
Case in point. We scheduled YSU for two games back when they were suffering losing seasons. At the time we were winning 3 and 5 games a season (an analysis of the wins showed that they were largely non-conference, D-III wins). But in the interim YSU committed $$ to facilities (big bucks actually) and the other intangibles. By 2011 and 2012 they are pushing Michigan State and beating Pitt and were back to the Tressel years level. But since the contract signing VU spiraled further downward. Now we are just beginning to rebuild. The previous game against STJ was a 50-7 loss. Last Thursday we should have won, but because of youthful inexperience we gave up the winning TD with less than 2 minutes to play. It's coming. We will be better. For a fact, the future schedule will no longer include D-III teams. Our program will be competitive at the lower end of FCS. We will play Patriot, NEC and possibly Ivy League teams regularly. Once we get past YSU on Saturday, I think you'll see much tighter games and a couple of wins this year. Duquesne has a 36 scholarship limit. But we could still beat them on our turf next week. Next year, we'll be even more competitive against a MVFC team and you might even see a .500 or better record overall. It's taken longer than expected to turn this thing around, but it is happening.
St. Joe has a 36 scholarship limit as well. "
Progress=almost winning a game" That is progress if you actually see how far we've come. 50-7 blowout last year with, if I remember correctly, St Joe's 3rd string QB at the helm to an immature team not finishing a game in the last 24 seconds.
The program is on the rise. Coach Carlson is turning the program around. Just think, a few years ago, players used to have to pay for their own gear (shoes, shorts, shirts, gloves, etc.), recruits had to pay their own way on visits, we had trash bags for jerseys, and the biggest improvement is they finally got rid of those brown and white two toned socks! The university is finally pumping some money into the program and it will pay out. It just takes time and support. Carlson is the best head football coach that this university has had in a long time. There are reasons that Coach Horne and Coach Adams are now at the high school level.
Quote from: setshot on September 05, 2012, 06:08:53 PMGood grief! We have already spent years trying to dig ourselves out of a hole. Isn't it about time to fill in the hole,plant our feet firmly on the ground and DROP FOOTBALL! :banghead:
This comment is ridiculous, insulting, and disrespectful to all the young men that have ever put on the Valpo jersey in 92 years. I just started following Valpo football and I've read about the history and thats exactly what it is PAST history. I personally know how hard the current team is working to turn this thing around and they are! Last years loss to St Joes was by 43 points. This year we lost by 2 in the last 24 seconds. I know St joes saw the improvement and would tell you they were lucky to get out of brown field with a W. I agree with VULB#62 about the facilities. Go on the PFL website and check out the the other conference members stadiums. Valpo is way behind and needs to step it up. For Pete's sake we have a Div.1 track team and no track!!!!! Oh, and one last thing,for all of you that like to post on here bashing football, be part of the solution not part of the problem!!!
Let's wait until Sept 20 when the Master Plan is rolled out and see what it says about upgraded athletic facilities. Paul
Scholarship or not, competitive or not, VU has been an FCS program for nearly 20 years now. The days of "crawling" as to scheduling are over. I personally would hope that the AD continues to schedule these types of games in the future, maybe not every year, but every couple of years, particularly now that the PFL has its bid. If VU ever makes the FCS tournament and we end up drawing a powerhouse school like YSU, we're not going to be able to cower in the corner of the room and curl up in the fetal position then knowing that their up next. So why should we do that with scheduling now?
The AD got this one right.
Check out Coach Carlsons blog as to why we play these games.
http://blogs.valpo.edu/football/ (http://blogs.valpo.edu/football/)
Why think small when scheduling out of conference opponents? Hell, nearby Savannah State picked-up over 400K by playing OSU last week. They lost 83-0, but got BIG bucks. This week Savannah State plays Florida State. FSU favored by an incredible 70pts. The payout for SSU is better than 500K. Is itworth it to SSU? Rep. wise - NO. Monetarily - ABSOLUTELY! Maybe USC or UGA will give Valpo a game. It won't be a home and home,but look at the bucks we could make. Rather lose to USC by 70pts. and make big bucks,than lose to YSU by 50 pts. and earn practically nothing.Think about it. GO SAVANNAH STATE! ???
Quote from: crusaderjoe on September 07, 2012, 08:12:09 AM
Scholarship or not, competitive or not, VU has been an FCS program for nearly 20 years now. The days of "crawling" as to scheduling are over. I personally would hope that the AD continues to schedule these types of games in the future, maybe not every year, but every couple of years, particularly now that the PFL has its bid. If VU ever makes the FCS tournament and we end up drawing a powerhouse school like YSU, we're not going to be able to cower in the corner of the room and curl up in the fetal position then knowing that their up next. So why should we do that with scheduling now?
The AD got this one right.
My quote from back on 9/5: " It's coming. We will be better. For a fact, the future schedule will no longer include D-III teams. Our program will be competitive at the lower end of FCS. We will play Patriot, NEC and possibly Ivy League teams regularly."I will add to that that in addition to Patriot, NEC and possibly Ivy teams, every year going forward there
will be one game against an FCS fully scholarshiped program. You can take that to the bank. :cheers:
Quote from: willy on September 07, 2012, 10:29:47 AM
Check out Coach Carlsons blog as to why we play these games.
http://blogs.valpo.edu/football/ (http://blogs.valpo.edu/football/)
Glad Coach C let the cats out of the bag on the MVC. OVC, Big Sky scheduling. Knew that was coming. They'll all be road games, but the value is great. The biggest problem is that these signed contracts at this point in time cannot anticipate how good (or how bad) the opponent will be years from now (YSU is a great example -- they were down at contract time and now look at them). But we expect to improve each year and close the gap each year, so doing this makes sense. In the past 10 years I don't think Mark ever scheduled this aggressively. It's a clear indicator of administrative commitment. Now, after we see the campus plan on September 20th we'll see what will be the future Brown Field and that too will be an indicator.
What is a realistic guess as to the payday at YSU?? Expenses plus 50? 100?
Quote from: setshot on September 07, 2012, 12:21:41 PM
Why think small when scheduling out of conference opponents? Hell, nearby Savannah State picked-up over 400K by playing OSU last week. They lost 83-0, but got BIG bucks. This week Savannah State plays Florida State. FSU favored by an incredible 70pts. The payout for SSU is better than 500K. Is itworth it to SSU? Rep. wise - NO. Monetarily - ABSOLUTELY! Maybe USC or UGA will give Valpo a game. It won't be a home and home,but look at the bucks we could make. Rather lose to USC by 70pts. and make big bucks,than lose to YSU by 50 pts. and earn practically nothing.Think about it. GO SAVANNAH STATE! ???
I had no idea there are paydays that big out there. At a glance it doesn't sound like a half bad idea.
It all depends. UMass is in it's first season of FBS competition. In an article about the financial risks was this about guarantees: "The Minutemen received $225,000 to play at UConn. However, they will pass much of that along when they pay Indiana $200,000 to visit Gillette for the home opener." So it looks like six figures but it could be low six figures, unlike Savannah State playing away before 55,000 where the gate is huge or YSU playing in East Lansing last year in front of 75,000 where the guarantee is more significant. I'm guessing VU gets $100K
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 07, 2012, 10:32:18 PM
It all depends. UMass is in it's first season of FBS competition. In an article about the financial risks was this about guarantees: "The Minutemen received $225,000 to play at UConn. However, they will pass much of that along when they pay Indiana $200,000 to visit Gillette for the home opener." So it looks like six figures but it could be low six figures, unlike Savannah State playing away before 55,000 where the gate is huge or YSU playing in East Lansing last year in front of 75,000 where the guarantee is more significant. I'm guessing VU gets $100K
Quote from: vuweathernerd on September 02, 2012, 07:01:43 AM
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 01, 2012, 08:30:05 PM
Youngstown State 31 Pitt 17
So can we all agree now that scheduling YSU is a BAD idea? Not only did they beat Pitt easily, but they did it by running at them. 204 yards on the ground and they controlled the line of scrimmage. Zero sacks allowed and minimal pressure from Pitt. Aaron Donald was a non factor the whole game as well. This is the return to the Tressel era YSU and until Coach Wolford is gone, they need to be off the VU schedule.
If I thought YSU would try, I'd say they'd hit 100, but they will play the managers and trainers about midway through the second quarter.
talk about adding insult to injury. not only did they go into pitt and win, they got paid to do it. youngstown got a $400k paycheck to beat the panthers.
..."Those schools wanted too much money, and Savannah State was eager to accept a $385,000 payout. First-year coach Steve Davenport isn't sure the paycheck was worth it. The Cowboys easily covered a 67½-point spread.
"We're going to have to readdress that," Davenport told the Associated Press. "You get paid for certain things, but I don't know if at the end of the day, some things are worth the payments you get. But we'll see. Those are conversations we'll have."
I think the YSU AD did a slightly better job scheduling than the SSU AD. YSU played in a competitive game, while SSU was humiliated 84-0.
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 08, 2012, 07:20:31 AM
..."Those schools wanted too much money, and Savannah State was eager to accept a $385,000 payout. First-year coach Steve Davenport isn't sure the paycheck was worth it. The Cowboys easily covered a 67½-point spread.
"We're going to have to readdress that," Davenport told the Associated Press. "You get paid for certain things, but I don't know if at the end of the day, some things are worth the payments you get. But we'll see. Those are conversations we'll have."
I think the YSU AD did a slightly better job scheduling than the SSU AD. YSU played in a competitive game, while SSU was humiliated 84-0.
And to top it off Valpo beat them yesterday in volleyball 3-0!! Today they are a 71.5 point dog to FSU. That won't be fun.
Directly from Dale Carlson's blog..."I get asked why we play these games. 1) We get a $$ guarante. This is an important part of the fund raising we do for our program. In future years we will be playing North Dakota, Western Illinois, Eastern Kentucky, and Illinois State."
I had to sleep on this one before I responded.
Wow, just wow. Scheduling teams that are guarenteed to be non competetive just for a payday. I get it when you're offering scholarships, but for a non scholarship program to schedule paydays for the university, all the while knowing they're going to get humiliated and drilled into the ground just seems wrong to me. If the university is so hard up for money that they can't afford shoes, socks and gloves for the football team, then (jj) setshot might be right, it might be time to take a long hard look in the mirror and see what the goals really are.
It reminds me of the Jacksonville game where Carlson hung those kids out to dry and gave them absolutely no chance to be competetive. But hey, they were practicing "the system". It was pathetic then, and it's pathetic now.
Hey, we're not good enough to beat D3 schools, but we're FCS, so we'll schedule the very best FCS schools.
We don't offer scholarships for football, but we'll let you get embarrased so we get paid.
If we don't take these beatings, you have to buy your own equipment, and oh yea, make sure your tuition is paid on time.
And then we wonder why people leave the program?
I guess if the kids are willing to put up with this, and take the financial hit to do it, more power to them. I applaud them for wanting to be a part of Valparaiso University. I don't know if I could be in their shoes.
All that being said, I still want this program to improve, but I think that's best done by knowing who you are, and what you're realistically trying to be. You can't win the Indy 500 in a go cart, but you can start the process of learning how to win the Indy 500 by participating in go cart races. Let's learn how to win first, then start taking on bigger better programs.
I understand your point miracle, and don't totally disagree. A couple of points: first, Western Illinois, Eastern Kentucky and Illinois State are not YSU. Butler, who no better than us, more than hung around with Western last week. North Dakota will be more like YSU but by then hopefully we will be bigger and tougher also.
I'm not sure what the scheduling requirements are but we may need to play other FCS programs and there just aren't many non-scholarship programs outside of our conference. I doubt we will be able to realistically compete with these type programs but hope springs eternal. Remember that our 2001 conference championship team, with the greatest quarterback to ever play at Valpo, lost to Murray State (I'm pretty sure) something like 30-0.
Quote from: vu72 on September 08, 2012, 01:29:29 PM
I understand your point miracle, and don't totally disagree. A couple of points: first, Western Illinois, Eastern Kentucky and Illinois State are not YSU. Butler, who no better than us, more than hung around with Western last week. North Dakota will be more like YSU but by then hopefully we will be bigger and tougher also.
I'm not sure what the scheduling requirements are but we may need to play other FCS programs and there just aren't many non-scholarship programs outside of our conference. I doubt we will be able to realistically compete with these type programs but hope springs eternal. Remember that our 2001 conference championship team, with the greatest quarterback to ever play at Valpo, lost to Murray State (I'm pretty sure) something like 30-0.
You do have a point with scheduling. They might have to play enough 1AA teams to qualify for the playoffs, I don't know. I will say that playing YSU, Georgia Southern, Northern Iowa, Appy State and ND State is just dumb. Heck, playing anybody in the top 25, or who could be in the top 25 shouldn't even be considered. On that note...
Until Valpo starts offering scholarships (not happening), then they shouldn't be hunting for paydays either. They're already getting the tuition from the players, let's reinvest some of that "extra" income by giving them D1 level equipment. I do remember hearing in years past that was part of the reason for keeping football...the guys playing football are paying their way. Let's have some, or most of that money go back into the program.
*let's see if I can go 2-0 on the prediction front...ND State beats Colorado State today.
I would think if Coach Carlson is in a position now, with these paydays, to make it so that the players don't have to buy their own shoes and other equipment, then he is investing those paydays into the program, and not just to the university/athletic department budgets. A drubbing is going to happen from time to time, and in those first few seasons, why not play the best, and see potential, instead of playing beatable teams that don't do anything more than inflate egos that don't deserve to be inflated. Whether we win or lose at YSU, we'll learn some more about what the Crusaders can do, and what players might be the ones to get us going this season.
Well...that took long. With 9:56 left in THE FIRST QUARTER...YSU 21 Valpo 0
Stop playing teams you have no business playing!
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 08, 2012, 03:24:06 PM
Well...that took long. With 9:56 left in THE FIRST QUARTER...YSU 21 Valpo 0
Stop playing teams you have no business playing!
7:00 left in the 2nd quarter - YSU 42 Valpo 0 - Outgained 333 to 51
My concern is the kids' morale. When your team has been really bad for 3-4 years, you become a laughingstock to other students.
Most of the non-FB students at VU won't know that YSU is a scholarship team that competes for a title. They will just know that our FB team got killed by 50 points and "here we go again." When kids are playing for pride (no scholarships), you don't have a lot of currency to give them other than "pride." The payday better be really big in order to sell out to this degree.
Quote from: crusadermoe on September 08, 2012, 04:16:19 PM
My concern is the kids' morale. When your team has been really bad for 3-4 years, you become a laughingstock to other students.
Most of the non-FB students at VU won't know that YSU is a scholarship team that competes for a title. They will just know that our FB team got killed by 50 points and "here we go again." When kids are playing for pride (no scholarships), you don't have a lot of currency to give them other than "pride." The payday better be really big in order to sell out to this degree.
I am in complete agreement. Nobody enjoys being embarrased, especially in front of a stadium full of people. Most of the students only know YSU from the Horizon League, not from MVC football and their multiple national championships. Kids do watch ESPN and having the score scroll across Youngstown State 49 - Valpo 0 - Half...isn't good for morale. Carlson has 1 win since he's been there, and while they might be improving, the casual fan or student won't know that, especially not from looking at the scoreboard.
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 08, 2012, 04:03:13 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 08, 2012, 03:24:06 PM
Well...that took long. With 9:56 left in THE FIRST QUARTER...YSU 21 Valpo 0
Stop playing teams you have no business playing!
7:00 left in the 2nd quarter - YSU 42 Valpo 0 - Outgained 333 to 51
Halftime update
YSU 49 Valpo 0 - Outgained 388 to 60 (229 of which was on the ground)
On a positive note, YSU didn't score on 9 straight possessions like last year.
*YSU's starting QB was out of the game well before halftime. Update - Hess and Cook played about 8-10 minutes in the first quarter, then sat the rest of the game.
Let'shope that FSU really rocks SSU by 70 pts. or more. Misery (VU) likes company. :'(
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 08, 2012, 04:37:12 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 08, 2012, 04:03:13 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 08, 2012, 03:24:06 PM
Well...that took long. With 9:56 left in THE FIRST QUARTER...YSU 21 Valpo 0
Stop playing teams you have no business playing!
7:00 left in the 2nd quarter - YSU 42 Valpo 0 - Outgained 333 to 51
Halftime update
YSU 49 Valpo 0 - Outgained 388 to 60 (229 of which was on the ground)
On a positive note, YSU didn't score on 9 straight possessions like last year.
*YSU's starting QB was out of the game well before halftime.
YSU 59 - Valpo 0
Valpo played thier starters for almost the whole 4th quarter. Even then they still didn't score. Outgained 524 to 190, and that's with YSU laying down for almost the entire second half.
The beating is over, hopefully the team can move on from this and prepare for games they can actually compete in from here on out.
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 08, 2012, 07:20:31 AM
..."Those schools wanted too much money, and Savannah State was eager to accept a $385,000 payout. First-year coach Steve Davenport isn't sure the paycheck was worth it. The Cowboys easily covered a 67½-point spread.
"We're going to have to readdress that," Davenport told the Associated Press. "You get paid for certain things, but I don't know if at the end of the day, some things are worth the payments you get. But we'll see. Those are conversations we'll have."
I think the YSU AD did a slightly better job scheduling than the SSU AD. YSU played in a competitive game, while SSU was humiliated 84-0.
More on that:The biggest winner in all this is Savannah State, which still collected $475,000 for playing the Seminoles in Tallahassee. The Tigers also got $385,000 for playing Oklahoma State last week. They lost that game 84-0 after being a 67½-point opening line underdog.
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 08, 2012, 02:14:04 PM
Quote from: vu72 on September 08, 2012, 01:29:29 PM
I understand your point miracle, and don't totally disagree. A couple of points: first, Western Illinois, Eastern Kentucky and Illinois State are not YSU. Butler, who no better than us, more than hung around with Western last week. North Dakota will be more like YSU but by then hopefully we will be bigger and tougher also.
I'm not sure what the scheduling requirements are but we may need to play other FCS programs and there just aren't many non-scholarship programs outside of our conference. I doubt we will be able to realistically compete with these type programs but hope springs eternal. Remember that our 2001 conference championship team, with the greatest quarterback to ever play at Valpo, lost to Murray State (I'm pretty sure) something like 30-0.
You do have a point with scheduling. They might have to play enough 1AA teams to qualify for the playoffs, I don't know. I will say that playing YSU, Georgia Southern, Northern Iowa, Appy State and ND State is just dumb. Heck, playing anybody in the top 25, or who could be in the top 25 shouldn't even be considered. On that note...
*let's see if I can go 2-0 on the prediction front...ND State beats Colorado State today.
First off it is the
University of ND that is on our schedule, not the reigning FCS champ ND State. Second: Saturday Drake played Montana State of the Big Sky, who is ranked #4 in the country (ahead of YSU), and only lost 34-24 -- that's competitive. Here's the PFL write-up:
DES MOINES, Iowa – No. 4 Montana State scored 13 fourth-quarter points to finish a come-from-behind 34-24 non-conference victory against Drake, Saturday, at Drake Stadium. The Bulldogs took a 17-14 halftime lead with a 17-point second quarter as they scored on three drives of 75-plus yards. The teams traded third-quarter scores before Montana State rallied for the game's final 13 points. Montana State barely edged Drake in total offense, 374-370, but converted 12-of-18 third-down tries against Drake's 3-of-14 conversion rate. Drake quarterback Michael Piatkowski completed 25-of-43 passes for 311 yards and a touchdown and ran for another score. I know MSU well because I follow them cuz my daughter got her Masters there and lives in Bozeman. I've seen the facilities. Talk about $$ and overall commitment -- that program is on the verge of eclipsing the University of Montana which has won a couple of national championships in the recent past. Bottom line, I still believe PFL programs,
if the commitment is there, can be competitive. Usually, they will in all likelihood lose, but if the scores are closer and closer (like Butler or Drake these past two weeks) over the next couple of years, that must be considered progress. And at the same time the guarantees provide immense assistance in program development.
STEPPING STONE OBSERVATION
BTW, I believe that Campbell will leave the PFL within 5 years and go scholarship and put their FB team into the Big South where they play all their other sports. Mercer and Stetson will use the PFL as stepping stones to scholarship FCS programs as well. They're in the SOUTH and there's no way they'll settle for the 'rewards' of non-scholarship football. That's FB country! Plus these schools can generate incredible $$ for athletics -- just look at their current facilities and their development campaigns, Sheesh! Just my humble opinion.
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 09, 2012, 08:45:32 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 08, 2012, 02:14:04 PM
Quote from: vu72 on September 08, 2012, 01:29:29 PM
I understand your point miracle, and don't totally disagree. A couple of points: first, Western Illinois, Eastern Kentucky and Illinois State are not YSU. Butler, who no better than us, more than hung around with Western last week. North Dakota will be more like YSU but by then hopefully we will be bigger and tougher also.
I'm not sure what the scheduling requirements are but we may need to play other FCS programs and there just aren't many non-scholarship programs outside of our conference. I doubt we will be able to realistically compete with these type programs but hope springs eternal. Remember that our 2001 conference championship team, with the greatest quarterback to ever play at Valpo, lost to Murray State (I'm pretty sure) something like 30-0.
You do have a point with scheduling. They might have to play enough 1AA teams to qualify for the playoffs, I don't know. I will say that playing YSU, Georgia Southern, Northern Iowa, Appy State and ND State is just dumb. Heck, playing anybody in the top 25, or who could be in the top 25 shouldn't even be considered. On that note...
*let's see if I can go 2-0 on the prediction front...ND State beats Colorado State today.
First off it is the University of ND that is on our schedule, not the reigning FCS champ ND State. Second: Saturday Drake played Montana State of the Big Sky, who is ranked #4 in the country (ahead of YSU), and only lost 34-24 -- that's competitive. Here's the PFL write-up:
DES MOINES, Iowa – No. 4 Montana State scored 13 fourth-quarter points to finish a come-from-behind 34-24 non-conference victory against Drake, Saturday, at Drake Stadium. The Bulldogs took a 17-14 halftime lead with a 17-point second quarter as they scored on three drives of 75-plus yards. The teams traded third-quarter scores before Montana State rallied for the game's final 13 points. Montana State barely edged Drake in total offense, 374-370, but converted 12-of-18 third-down tries against Drake's 3-of-14 conversion rate. Drake quarterback Michael Piatkowski completed 25-of-43 passes for 311 yards and a touchdown and ran for another score.
I know MSU well because I follow them cuz my daughter got her Masters there and lives in Bozeman. I've seen the facilities. Talk about $$ and overall commitment -- that program is on the verge of eclipsing the University of Montana which has won a couple of national championships in the recent past. Bottom line, I still believe PFL programs, if the commitment is there, can be competitive. Usually, they will in all likelihood lose, but if the scores are closer and closer (like Butler or Drake these past two weeks) over the next couple of years, that must be considered progress. And at the same time the guarantees provide immense assistance in program development.
STEPPING STONE OBSERVATION
BTW, I believe that Campbell will leave the PFL within 5 years and go scholarship and put their FB team into the Big South where they play all their other sports. Mercer and Stetson will use the PFL as stepping stones to scholarship FCS programs as well. They're in the SOUTH and there's no way they'll settle for the 'rewards' of non-scholarship football. That's FB country! Plus these schools can generate incredible $$ for athletics -- just look at their current facilities and their development campaigns, Sheesh! Just my humble opinion.
When is U of ND on our schedule? Before all the BCS, FBS, FCS stuff Drake beat University of Colorado in football in '79. After this past weekend, I'm not sure it couldn't happen again.
Quote from: covufan on September 10, 2012, 12:31:43 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 09, 2012, 08:45:32 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 08, 2012, 02:14:04 PM
Quote from: vu72 on September 08, 2012, 01:29:29 PM
I understand your point miracle, and don't totally disagree. A couple of points: first, Western Illinois, Eastern Kentucky and Illinois State are not YSU. Butler, who no better than us, more than hung around with Western last week. North Dakota will be more like YSU but by then hopefully we will be bigger and tougher also.
I'm not sure what the scheduling requirements are but we may need to play other FCS programs and there just aren't many non-scholarship programs outside of our conference. I doubt we will be able to realistically compete with these type programs but hope springs eternal. Remember that our 2001 conference championship team, with the greatest quarterback to ever play at Valpo, lost to Murray State (I'm pretty sure) something like 30-0.
You do have a point with scheduling. They might have to play enough 1AA teams to qualify for the playoffs, I don't know. I will say that playing YSU, Georgia Southern, Northern Iowa, Appy State and ND State is just dumb. Heck, playing anybody in the top 25, or who could be in the top 25 shouldn't even be considered. On that note...
*let's see if I can go 2-0 on the prediction front...ND State beats Colorado State today.
First off it is the University of ND that is on our schedule, not the reigning FCS champ ND State. Second: Saturday Drake played Montana State of the Big Sky, who is ranked #4 in the country (ahead of YSU), and only lost 34-24 -- that's competitive. Here's the PFL write-up:
DES MOINES, Iowa – No. 4 Montana State scored 13 fourth-quarter points to finish a come-from-behind 34-24 non-conference victory against Drake, Saturday, at Drake Stadium. The Bulldogs took a 17-14 halftime lead with a 17-point second quarter as they scored on three drives of 75-plus yards. The teams traded third-quarter scores before Montana State rallied for the game's final 13 points. Montana State barely edged Drake in total offense, 374-370, but converted 12-of-18 third-down tries against Drake's 3-of-14 conversion rate. Drake quarterback Michael Piatkowski completed 25-of-43 passes for 311 yards and a touchdown and ran for another score.
I know MSU well because I follow them cuz my daughter got her Masters there and lives in Bozeman. I've seen the facilities. Talk about $$ and overall commitment -- that program is on the verge of eclipsing the University of Montana which has won a couple of national championships in the recent past. Bottom line, I still believe PFL programs, if the commitment is there, can be competitive. Usually, they will in all likelihood lose, but if the scores are closer and closer (like Butler or Drake these past two weeks) over the next couple of years, that must be considered progress. And at the same time the guarantees provide immense assistance in program development.
STEPPING STONE OBSERVATION
BTW, I believe that Campbell will leave the PFL within 5 years and go scholarship and put their FB team into the Big South where they play all their other sports. Mercer and Stetson will use the PFL as stepping stones to scholarship FCS programs as well. They're in the SOUTH and there's no way they'll settle for the 'rewards' of non-scholarship football. That's FB country! Plus these schools can generate incredible $$ for athletics -- just look at their current facilities and their development campaigns, Sheesh! Just my humble opinion.
When is U of ND on our schedule? Before all the BCS, FBS, FCS stuff Drake beat University of Colorado in football in '79. After this past weekend, I'm not sure it couldn't happen again.
they will be on the schedule at some point in the coming years, if i'm reading previous posts correctly. part of carlson's initiative to schedule up.
FYI----------- The schools mentioned below (plus YSU) as they appear in the Sports Network week two rankings:
#4 YSU -- 3367 points
#15 Illinois State -- 1692
#20 EKU -- 704
UND -- 123
WIU -- 11
Drake got 1 point while USD dropped out.
Interesting to see that Duquesne at 2-0, who got some points last week, dropped out even after a win over Dayton.
Quote from: vuweathernerd on September 10, 2012, 03:39:25 PMthey will be on the schedule at some point in the coming years, if i'm reading previous posts correctly. part of carlson's initiative to schedule up.
OK, thanks. I agree with the 'schedule up' approach. If we are in Division I, then play Division I teams. I can see one game against a St. Joe or whatever, and one game against FCS scholarship. which is where we are now.
COVUFAN
"OK, thanks. I agree with the 'schedule up' approach. If we are in Division I, then play Division I teams. I can see one game against a St. Joe or whatever, and one game against FCS scholarship. which is where we are now."
Yeah, it appears that most of the other PFL teams are doing exactly that (or trying to).
>> A D-II team (usually partially scholarshipped but not at the level of FCS)
>> A partially scholarshipped FCS team (NEC/Patriot League) and ....
>> A fully scholarshipped FCS team that is a REAL challenge.
It's a great spread that will give teams a sense of where they are in terms of program competitive development.
The 2013 PFL schedule (with the addition of Stetson and Mercer that brings the entire league to 12) will have each team playing 8 PFL games and 3 OOC games, so this works. I'm thinking that because VU is still struggling, it will get mostly the bottom 8 of 12 (not including VU of course) of the 2012 PFL standings while still scheduling MVC/OVS/BS, D-II and NEC teams as OOC games.
So for 2013 here's my guess:
OOC
St Joes or another -- D-II
Robert Morris, Wagner, Duquesne (again) -- NEC (or in 2014 a Patriot team like Bucknell or Lehigh. Be great for me here in New England if it were Holy Cross)
One of: EKU, ISU, UND, or WIU -- FCS
PFL
Mercer
Davidson
Stetson
Morehead
Butler
Marist
Campbell
Dayton
We dodge:
Jacksonville
Drake
USD
Quote from: VULB#62 on September 09, 2012, 08:45:32 PM
Quote from: milanmiracle on September 08, 2012, 02:14:04 PM
Quote from: vu72 on September 08, 2012, 01:29:29 PM
I understand your point miracle, and don't totally disagree. A couple of points: first, Western Illinois, Eastern Kentucky and Illinois State are not YSU. Butler, who no better than us, more than hung around with Western last week. North Dakota will be more like YSU but by then hopefully we will be bigger and tougher also.
I'm not sure what the scheduling requirements are but we may need to play other FCS programs and there just aren't many non-scholarship programs outside of our conference. I doubt we will be able to realistically compete with these type programs but hope springs eternal. Remember that our 2001 conference championship team, with the greatest quarterback to ever play at Valpo, lost to Murray State (I'm pretty sure) something like 30-0.
You do have a point with scheduling. They might have to play enough 1AA teams to qualify for the playoffs, I don't know. I will say that playing YSU, Georgia Southern, Northern Iowa, Appy State and ND State is just dumb. Heck, playing anybody in the top 25, or who could be in the top 25 shouldn't even be considered. On that note...
*let's see if I can go 2-0 on the prediction front...ND State beats Colorado State today.
First off it is the University of ND that is on our schedule, not the reigning FCS champ ND State. Second: Saturday Drake played Montana State of the Big Sky, who is ranked #4 in the country (ahead of YSU), and only lost 34-24 -- that's competitive. Here's the PFL write-up:
DES MOINES, Iowa – No. 4 Montana State scored 13 fourth-quarter points to finish a come-from-behind 34-24 non-conference victory against Drake, Saturday, at Drake Stadium. The Bulldogs took a 17-14 halftime lead with a 17-point second quarter as they scored on three drives of 75-plus yards. The teams traded third-quarter scores before Montana State rallied for the game's final 13 points. Montana State barely edged Drake in total offense, 374-370, but converted 12-of-18 third-down tries against Drake's 3-of-14 conversion rate. Drake quarterback Michael Piatkowski completed 25-of-43 passes for 311 yards and a touchdown and ran for another score.
I know MSU well because I follow them cuz my daughter got her Masters there and lives in Bozeman. I've seen the facilities. Talk about $$ and overall commitment -- that program is on the verge of eclipsing the University of Montana which has won a couple of national championships in the recent past. Bottom line, I still believe PFL programs, if the commitment is there, can be competitive. Usually, they will in all likelihood lose, but if the scores are closer and closer (like Butler or Drake these past two weeks) over the next couple of years, that must be considered progress. And at the same time the guarantees provide immense assistance in program development.
STEPPING STONE OBSERVATION
BTW, I believe that Campbell will leave the PFL within 5 years and go scholarship and put their FB team into the Big South where they play all their other sports. Mercer and Stetson will use the PFL as stepping stones to scholarship FCS programs as well. They're in the SOUTH and there's no way they'll settle for the 'rewards' of non-scholarship football. That's FB country! Plus these schools can generate incredible $$ for athletics -- just look at their current facilities and their development campaigns, Sheesh! Just my humble opinion.
It is amazing to see Montana State's progress as a football program, as they were a doormat a few years back. The Grizzlies of Montana used to own MSU. My Granddad taught at MSU many years ago, and I had family living in Bozeman until recently as well (now in Sioux Falls, SD). I go up to Montana each August to a place we have on Flathead Lake in NW Montana, and it is unbelievably beautiful. They have some huge selling points at the University of Montana in scenery, so I am even more surprised in MSU's progress versus them, since Bozeman is more flat than Missoula.
Gotta be their commitment to the program. I've watched the stadium grow over only the past several years to it's present 20,000+ capacity. Bozeman is growing too, despite the recession, and IMO, has a nicer main street/downtown. It's more small townish than Missoula and the nearby skiing is super with Bridger and Big Sky both within an hour's drive. I get out there at least once a year, sometimes twice. Tried to talk Coach Carlson into scheduling the Bobcats without any luck (so far).
Two years ago Drake lost to MSU 21-48 in Bozeman. This year they nearly upset them. Drake must be doing something right as well.
I think the showing against YSU is looking better and better. Pitt, the team YSU beat on the road by a few scores, just beat Va Tech, ranked #13, by 2 td's in a game that wasn't that close.
My guess is YSU could be ranked 1 or 2 this week.