I think that basketball practice officially begins next Friday, Oct. 12th. Does anyone know if there are any activities planned for the students or the community?
It will be interesting to see how practices go and who has stepped it up.
Here's the question for Coach Drew: How are you going to keep the most talented, loaded team in recent history all happy?
Last year He played an eight man rotation. The entire starting lineup is back, Ryan, Kevin, Erik, Ben and Will. Add Matt and there is six of the eight, with Harris and Edwards departing. Now add Capo, Rossi, Coleman, Fernandez and, after December, Dority and you have an entire additional starting lineup. Don't forget about Tommy Kurth, who is presumably healthy again but looks to be 13th on the depth chart. Still, he was a starter a few years ago.
That's way more people than makes sense unless Bryce wants a non-stop full court press. Should be VERY interesting--someones not going to be too happy.
Allen Iverson talks about PRACTICE. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frsId3goYYE#)
In all seriousness, this is why I was counterintuitively chagrined that Alex Rossi became immediately eligible--because, assuming he would use all his eligibility, he would have been able to play in 2015-16, when the great incoming class were juniors. Imagine that lineup--regardless of who else took the other 7 scholarships!
First, then, it's hard to wager Alex Rossi, v.2012-13, being better than Alex Rossi, v.2015-16 (not that Vegas is taking bets on the line, but that's your trade-off). That's considered in isolation.
Then second, to take it back to the team and the rotation, it's hard to imagine him getting more time this year, with the lineup what it is, than next year, let alone 2015.
But that is just my $0.02. This, AI, is what practice is for.
Quote from: vu72 on October 03, 2012, 04:22:49 PMThat's way more people than makes sense unless Bryce wants a non-stop full court press. Should be VERY interesting--someones not going to be too happy.
If they win it will be less of a problem. Winning with reasonable rotations will go a long way in promoting team harmony. If we lose with some questionable substitution patterns then things will heat up. Too early in IMO to flag this as a real issue.
Either Boggs or Kenney might be out of the rotation. They are very similar players, they both played the 3 spot, but Kenney was clearly better last year. However, Rossi will likely take one of their spots in the rotation at the 3 spot. Boggs has a higher ceiling in my opinion, but just didn't shoot well last year. To me Kenney reached his full offensive and defensive potential in the last 5 games of his Freshman season. He better be careful or he might lose his minutes entirely.
Quote from: vubballfan10 on October 03, 2012, 05:42:49 PM
Either Boggs or Kenney might be out of the rotation. They are very similar players, they both played the 3 spot, but Kenney was clearly better last year. However, Rossi will likely take one of their spots in the rotation at the 3 spot. Boggs has a higher ceiling in my opinion, but just didn't shoot well last year. To me Kenney reached his full offensive and defensive potential in the last 5 games of his Freshman season. He better be careful or he might lose his minutes entirely.
I'd say stick with Kenney a I am not sure he doesn't have a higher ceiling than Boggs. Nice choices to have though.
I'll help with the rotation though...Kurth should never see the floor again, unless of course it's against PNC or someone of that ilk. Buggs is a liability on offense, and while his defense is very good, playing 4 on 5 makes things difficult. The last few games at the end of the season showed teams daring Buggs to knock down open shots...he couldn't do it. He's never been able to do it.
This isn't a Final 4 team, so there are minutes to be had, and lets not forget that playing well together trumps individual talent in most cases. It's going to be up to Bryce to find which players compliment each other, not just the five best players.
NCAA or bust!
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on October 03, 2012, 05:05:44 PM
In all seriousness, this is why I was counterintuitively chagrined that Alex Rossi became immediately eligible--because, assuming he would use all his eligibility, he would have been able to play in 2015-16, when the great incoming class were juniors. Imagine that lineup--regardless of who else took the other 7 scholarships!
Apostle, what are the chances the kid would accept a redshirt year (if he's eligible) knowing how tough the minutes here in 12-13 will be to get? Given what you observed, it would have been nice for the NCAA to make the minutes decision for Bryce. Actually, the NCAA decision could have been an unwanted decision by the staff and now they have an embarrassment of riches. But, if I'm a kid, I would want to play regardless ........... so, I guess I answered my own question, huh?
I'm dating myself again, but do you remember when Lew Alcindor's UCLA frosh clobbered the varsity and the varsity went on to an 18-8 season? Of course, there is no comparison, but there is a slight analogy in terms of what the HC has to do to set a line-up and the rotations to deal with a ton of talent talent. But that was John Wooden............ He was a master at controlling young egos. He also coached in a totally different era -- twitter was a sound a bird made outside your window.
Quote from: milanmiracle on October 03, 2012, 05:57:18 PM
This isn't a Final 4 team, so there are minutes to be had, and lets not forget that playing well together trumps individual talent in most cases. It's going to be up to Bryce to find which players compliment each other, not just the five best players.
NCAA or bust!
In the previous post I mentioned John Wooden and talked about how he handled youthful egos. Maybe more than last season, we'll see how good a coach Bryce really is. But, right now, based on his personality I'd ride that pony. He has to do what he thinks is right and if they lose another kid to XFER so be it. But in season he cannot, absolutely, allow any malcontent to undermine team unity. I also believe that this senior bunch will have a way of managing the locker room so that won't happen. During the Patriot's run to 3 SBs in 4 years, that's the way the vets handled ego issues. No one is bigger than the team, you do your job no matter how menial, and you revel in the outcome. As Miracle points out, none of these guys, maybe Rowdy excepted, will be drafted by the NBA, so their greatest memories will be winning the games they do and advancing as far as they can in the NCAA. Then they will go about the business of being of being like all the rest of us.
I was just playing devil's advocate. Of Course Kenney is ahead of Boggs in the rotation! He's been in the program for 4 years and is a better overall player than Boggs. Here is their stats comparison in 2011-12:
Stat Kenney Boggs
PPG 7.3 4.5
RPG 4.5 3.2
APG 2.5 0.9
SPG 1.1 0.3
BPG 0.8 0.1
FG% 48.6 29.4
FT% 65.8 80.5
3P% 31.3 29.6
A/TO ratio 1.21 0.61
The only category Ben Boggs won was Free throw shooting, Kenney was clearly better in almost all of the other statistical categories.
Quote from: vu72 on October 03, 2012, 04:22:49 PMIt will be interesting to see how practices go and who has stepped it up. Here's the question for Coach Drew: How are you going to keep the most talented, loaded team in recent history all happy? Last year He played an eight man rotation. The entire starting lineup is back, Ryan, Kevin, Erik, Ben and Will. Add Matt and there is six of the eight, with Harris and Edwards departing. Now add Capo, Rossi, Coleman, Fernandez and, after December, Dority and you have an entire additional starting lineup. Don't forget about Tommy Kurth, who is presumably healthy again but looks to be 13th on the depth chart. Still, he was a starter a few years ago. That's way more people than makes sense unless Bryce wants a non-stop full court press. Should be VERY interesting--someones not going to be too happy.
The only reason Kurth started in 2009-10 is because Buggs missed almost that entire season (he only played 6 or 7 games). Kurth started because it seems as though Homer Drew wanted a pass first player at point guard that year, and not put Wood or McPherson at point guard. Had Buggs been healthy, Kurth would not have played so much his Freshman season.
Quote from: vubballfan10 on October 03, 2012, 06:08:04 PM
I was just playing devil's advocate. Of Course Kenney is ahead of Boggs in the rotation! He's been in the program for 4 years and is a better overall player than Boggs. Here is their stats comparison in 2011-12:
Stat Kenney Boggs
PPG 7.3 4.5
RPG 4.5 3.2
APG 2.5 0.9
SPG 1.1 0.3
BPG 0.8 0.1
FG% 48.6 29.4
FT% 65.8 80.5
3P% 31.3 29.6
A/TO ratio 1.21 0.61
The only category Ben Boggs won was Free throw shooting, Kenney was clearly better in almost all of the other statistical categories.
You have to remember that Ben played in only 4 games as a Sophomore at VT and did not start playing last year until the end of the 1st semester. That's a lot of downtime followed by playing for a new coach in a new system in a new league. I have a feeling he will show some considerable improvement over last year and will be in the thick of the "minutes battle."
Do you think it would be fair to say that Boggs/Kenney/Rossi will all be sharing the 40 minutes at the 3 spot?
Quote from: vubballfan10 on October 03, 2012, 09:21:49 PM
Do you think it would be fair to say that Boggs/Kenney/Rossi will all be sharing the 40 minutes at the 3 spot?
After Ryan gets his 6 or 7 that should leave 33 or 34 to be split among them. They should also be splitting a significant amount of 2-guard minutes and until Dority can play possibly some of the back up point as well (although I hope we do not have to do that). There could even be times when we might choose to use one of them as a ball control 4. They should all get some playing time, and the more versatility they show the more they should get.
I lot to say about this topic. First no way will matt kenny be removed from the rotation. he does some positives on offense, but really excels defensively, and that is very critical to the team. Bob Boggs has to get better otherwise he'll lose minutes. On a positive note, Ben needed the time on the court and should be able to take his game up a notch. He's a high character guy that the coaches will give him a starters role early. If Boggs plays like last year, Rossi will get some of his minutes. Look for Matt Kenny to eat up some minutes at the one and two early on.
I'll try and give updates like these about once a week....
go crusaders.
Two of the best players in the conference are on the squad and set the tone for the mental attitude of this team. Ryan has always been an unselfish player (dont we all agree we would love to see him look for his shot a little more?). The key, as I see it for this team this season is senior leadership and an understanding of what the roles of players are to be. There is no doubt this is the most talented (at least on paper) squad that VU has assembled in years (if not ever).
There is obvious offensive firepower. Will VU be able to apply defensive pressure? With Buggs and Kenney, there are two lock down defenders. Will there be a shot blocker down low? Will it be critical to protect the basket? Can everyone stay healthy?
It should be an excellent season.
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 03, 2012, 06:00:06 PMApostle, what are the chances the kid would accept a redshirt year (if he's eligible)
62, that's a good question...he has already used a medical redshirt year, so whether he could use a voluntary one is something that'd have to be researched. He could have taken one had the NCAA forced one upon him, of course...
Quote from: vubballfan10 on October 03, 2012, 06:08:04 PMStat Kenney BoggsPPG 7.3 4.5RPG 4.5 3.2APG 2.5 0.9SPG 1.1 0.3BPG 0.8 0.1FG% 48.6 29.4FT% 65.8 80.53P% 31.3 29.6A/TO ratio 1.21 0.61
Somewhat misleading, however, as Kenney played about 30% more minutes than Boggs, accounting for a good deal of the skew:
Points per minute played: Kenney .2625; Boggs .2108
Rebounds per minute played: Kenney .1623; Boggs .1470
Fouls per minute played: Kenney .0882; Boggs .0889
Still, Kenney has a slight edge, but perhaps the biggest answer to the question is that Kenney had more minutes in the first place! Even in the conference season, when Boggs was already fully eligible, he had 21 mpg where Kenney was a couple rotations in front at 27 mpg. So it's hard to imagine Boggs passing him not only based on the stats, but on the fact that he was behind him in minutes to begin with...
How Valpo defines the three this year, in my opinion, is one of the keys to the season (along with defense - especially interior defense). If Valpo is playing three guards, Broekhoff and a post player - they'll be good, but I don't think they can reach their potential. Matt Kenney should be in the rotation - he plays defense and works darn hard. But he rarely should play the three because everyone else has guards that can match him. Playing Broekhoff (potentially with Rossi behind him) at the three brings this team to an entirely different level (and Broekhoff and Rossi together at 3 and 4 could be fine too). This lineup is a matchup nightmare for anyone in the Horizon League. A big requirement for this: Van Wijk, Capobianco, and Fernandez all must be able to play quality minutes. A big challenge: keeping peace among all of the guards with only 40 PGs minutes, 40SG minutes, and (maybe) a handful of minutes at the three available.
Quote from: LaPorteAveApostle on October 04, 2012, 08:35:55 AM
Quote from: VULB#62 on October 03, 2012, 06:00:06 PMApostle, what are the chances the kid would accept a redshirt year (if he's eligible)
62, that's a good question...he has already used a medical redshirt year, so whether he could use a voluntary one is something that'd have to be researched. He could have taken one had the NCAA forced one upon him, of course...
My :twocents: :
1. The kid has played 16 minutes in his first two seasons of college basketball. If he's eligible (he is) and healthy (I've heard he is), there is roughly 0% chance that he would willingly sit out another year.
2.
If he did agree to sit out, the odds of the NCAA granting him a 6th year would also be near 0%. The kids who get a 6th year are usually guys who missed 2 seasons with injury. Scott Martin is an exception and got a 6th year with a transfer + injury combination, but Abromaitis was denied for a voluntary redshirt + injury combination (even though the injury came after the voluntary redshirt). In Rossi's case, the only way for a 6th year would be if he had a medical condition/injury that prevented him from playing this year, IMO. I just can't see the NCAA granting a 6th year for the sole purpose of balancing classes/extending eligibility, which is what seemed to be proposed here.
Makes sense.
I am not looking at the roster right now, but the usually the roster is sprinkled with players from freshmen thru seniors, often 3 or 4 players per year. This group is completely top heavy with a ton of seniors. The transfers have taken spots normally "taken" by freshmen.
The reloading next year will be interesting, my guess, and only a guess is that the current staff is going "all in" this year with expectations of moving on after the season is over. Cant say that I blame them, the name of the coaching game these days is keep moving onward and upward.
lowposter
The average age for each player on this roster is between 21 and 22 years old, probably the oldest team (in terms of age) in the country except for BYU. (b/c of their 2 year Mormon missions)
From the discussions I have been reading, it seems clear that guys will still have to produce in limited minutes. A good example of this in recent memory is Mike Rogers, whose playing time got cut in half from his sophomore year to his senior year (29.7 to 14.6 mpg). However he did a great job of choosing his spots during his senior year. He shot 54.5 % from the field as a senior after shooting 43.6% over his first three years. He bought in to the fact that Broekhoff was taking most of his minutes, and still contributed immensely to the 2010-11 team despite limited minutes.
That is what some players will have to learn to do this year.
And they will have to buy into it, at least the transfers will as their options are limited (for further transfer) unless they graduate and still have eligibility due to the Masters Degree program.
lowposter
according to Kevin van wijk's Facebook, he has been cleared by the doctor for his knee problems so he is able to get back to working with the team. :thumbsup:
Here is a new video featuring Buggs and displaying some scenes of Erik at practice:
I am Valpo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAnCmRt7RaI#ws)
Possibly the coolist thing I've seen concerning Valpo sports period. Here is a young man with multiple things pulling at him and the maturity is shining through. I can't wait for the season to start. Although I have only just met a few of these players, it is obvious what Bryce's influence has been. win, Lose or draw, these young men will leave Valpo as mature, well spoken people who will be great ambassadors for the University.
BYT, I expect some early season butt kickings!!
Erik Buggs really does know his strengths and weaknessess on the court. He is the best defensive PG in the Horizon, and does a great job getting assists to the scorers, Broekhoff and Van Wijk. He rarely forces a shot on the offensive end, and has been a great starting PG now for the third year in a row.
For those who live outside the area, I thought you might like to read the letter from Mark LaBarbera sent to season ticket holders:
Dear Crusader Fan,
Thank you for purchasing season tickets for the 2012-2013 Valpo Basketball season. We are excited about the upcoming season for Crusader basketball! As a small thank you for your investment in our program, you and your family are invited to the 2nd annual Season Ticket Holder open practice. This is your opportunity to meet this year's Men's basketball team led by reigning Horizon League Coach of the Year, Bryce Drew, and this year's Women's basketball team guided by first-year head coach, Tracey Dorow. This exclusive event for season ticket holders will be held in the main arena of the ARC on Saturday, October 13th, from 6pm to 8pm and will overlap one hour of each team's practice. You will be the first group to catch a glance at the teams as they begin their preparations for the 2012-13 season. A light meal will be provided. If you are able to attend, we ask that you RSvp by calling 219-464-6894 or e-mailing valpo.athletics@valpo.edu with the size of your party.
We hope to see you at this event and thank you again for your continued support of Valpo Basketball!
Sincerely,
Mark LaBarbera
Director of Athletics
Quote from: wh on October 03, 2012, 03:49:50 PM
I think that basketball practice officially begins next Friday, Oct. 12th. Does anyone know if there are any activities planned for the students or the community?
Getting back to the original question, I seem to have heard they are doing an all inclusive athletic dodgeball game, with the entire school body and community invited. Kind of a "get to know your athletes" function, of sorts. Not sure if this is what you are refering too, or if there is a team specific function planned. Last I heard it was this weekend. That may have changed though.
The letter I referred in my last post (just before yours) explains what they are doing for the community. And, your post tells me what they're doing for the students. Question answered - thanks Jack.
Regarding the discussion of Matt Kenney vs. Ben Boggs - Am I the only one who believes Matt is about 10 times more athletic than Ben? He's fast, he's got long arms and he can jump out of the gym. Yes, this doesn't make him a great shooter, but he always seems to come up with huge plays at the end of games - grabbing a rebound, blocking a shot or coming up with a steal before taking it down to the other end and making an acrobatic layup, dunk or passing off to an open teammate. Matt may not have been a starter, but he was certainly a finisher.
Quote from: Valpo89 on October 08, 2012, 05:27:34 PM
Regarding the discussion of Matt Kenney vs. Ben Boggs - Am I the only one who believes Matt is about 10 times more athletic than Ben? He's fast, he's got long arms and he can jump out of the gym. Yes, this doesn't make him a great shooter, but he always seems to come up with huge plays at the end of games - grabbing a rebound, blocking a shot or coming up with a steal before taking it down to the other end and making an acrobatic layup, dunk or passing off to an open teammate. Matt may not have been a starter, but he was certainly a finisher.
I am a big Matt Kenney fan, and I think he's a better player than Boggs. I still believe his shooting will come around too.
Matt is a complete player, someone that I very much respect for his work ethic and apparent 'heart.' As you mentioned, he is not the greatest shooter, but he penetrates the defense well, though sometimes a little careless and out of control to get a charge called on him.
Quote from: Valpo89 on October 08, 2012, 05:27:34 PM
Regarding the discussion of Matt Kenney vs. Ben Boggs - Am I the only one who believes Matt is about 10 times more athletic than Ben? He's fast, he's got long arms and he can jump out of the gym. Yes, this doesn't make him a great shooter, but he always seems to come up with huge plays at the end of games - grabbing a rebound, blocking a shot or coming up with a steal before taking it down to the other end and making an acrobatic layup, dunk or passing off to an open teammate. Matt may not have been a starter, but he was certainly a finisher.
89---On a side note, I seem to recall that you have run the Chicago Marathon before. Did you run it again this past Sunday? If so, how was the experience?
Quote from: wh on October 09, 2012, 07:02:39 AM
Quote from: Valpo89 on October 08, 2012, 05:27:34 PM
Regarding the discussion of Matt Kenney vs. Ben Boggs - Am I the only one who believes Matt is about 10 times more athletic than Ben? He's fast, he's got long arms and he can jump out of the gym. Yes, this doesn't make him a great shooter, but he always seems to come up with huge plays at the end of games - grabbing a rebound, blocking a shot or coming up with a steal before taking it down to the other end and making an acrobatic layup, dunk or passing off to an open teammate. Matt may not have been a starter, but he was certainly a finisher.
89---On a side note, I seem to recall that you have run the Chicago Marathon before. Did you run it again this past Sunday? If so, how was the experience?
Yes, ran it for the 14th year in a row. 3:35:21, ranking as my third-best time going by memory and not my official list that I can't find. It was much better than four of the previous five years when it was too hot.
Quote from: wh on October 08, 2012, 04:27:05 PM
The letter I referred in my last post (just before yours) explains what they are doing for the community. And, your post tells me what they're doing for the students. Question answered - thanks Jack.
You bet. Hey, hard to beat Floyd on guitar, but this would have to be right up there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzBQ4OKcNNU
How did this thread get hijacked by Peter Frampton??? I thought I would come on here this morning and see all kinds of reports on last night's practice. Where are they? Did anybody go? If you did, what were your observations. Analysis please!!!
(In case you can't tell, my college basketball withdrawal symptoms are at a very high level and I need a fix.)
FWalum - Saturday night is the 2nd Annual open team practice - for season ticket holders - I'm sure there will be some reports late Saturday and Sunday
I'm sorry, I thought it was last night. (once again I will blame this on NCBS... no college basketball syndrome)
Sorry, even I didn't catch that mistake. Practice is tonight and I am going. Toe and all.
It was a pretty run of the mill practice for the men's team. Nothing very unusual. Bryce told the crowd that they had practiced 3 hours duration previous to the event.
Here are some things I learned:
Per Tracy Darow, women's coach, the women will pleasantly surprise the rest of the HL and are much better than what most people are expecting from them.
Jordan Coleman went to the same HS as the Kardashians.
Not only KVW but Matt Kenney has had some knee issues. Kenney's medical condition must be a lot better than Kevin's because Kevin did not participate in the part of the practice we saw except for some shooting drills.
I think Vashil sure has a lot of physical talent now he needs some time to coordinate it enough to really be dangerous. Our opponents will have to work hard to keep him off the boards so he doesn't get easy putbacks.
I saw no real superior shooting from Rossi but I don't think there was any determined effort to help him showcase any shooting.
We are now as tall or taller than every other team in the Horizon League.
Dority looks like he has such a huge presence on the court. He'll never get out muscled for a loose ball.
Capobianco looks to have an outside shot. Let's hope he has a decent inside game. He'll be tough on the boards but I have a feeling Broekhoff will still get more rebounds.
Just my opinion but the guy who will probably have the most impact on this team is Lavonte. He's a good take charge guy and if he can meld in well by mid-December he AND Buggs will play huge roles for this team. Before mid-December it just may be Jordan Coleman who makes the biggest impact.
Quote from: historyman on October 13, 2012, 10:41:55 PM
Jordan Coleman went to the same HS as the Kardashians.
wait - the kardashians went to high school?
Quote from: vuweathernerd on October 14, 2012, 02:36:39 PM (http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=974.msg18045#msg18045)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
wait - the kardashians went to high school?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, Byrce even mentioned that Jordan turned down Kim K when she asked him out for prom. Jordan shook his head "no."
Quote from: historyman on October 13, 2012, 10:41:55 PMJordan Coleman went to the same HS as the Kardashians.
As Clark Griswold said in the
Vacation movie, "Nothing to be proud of."
Quote from: historyman on October 14, 2012, 03:31:59 PM
Quote from: vuweathernerd on October 14, 2012, 02:36:39 PM (http://www.valpofanzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=974.msg18045#msg18045)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
wait - the kardashians went to high school?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, Byrce even mentioned that Jordan turned down Kim K when she asked him out for prom. Jordan shook his head "no."
That, sir, is a compliment of the highest order.