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Keep in mind that even though we are the home team, it is "technically" a neutral site game hosted by the Horizon League. Tickets are set up in a certain way...and the students are placed near their team benches...hence why Deteot hs their students in the student section last year.

Excellent first half, ugly second...a win, road win...11-3

payne and averkamp both sitting tonight, according to osipoff on twitter.

We need to blow them out early and not let the other kids think they have a chance for the upset.

The Harlem Shake they did also was VERY close to getting us a technical...the officials had to run in and get the students away from the Detroit huddle and off the court. At one point, they were literally withing a foot or two of the Detroit folks standing around the timeout.

I love the enthusiasm, love the noise and love how full the place was, but my goodness what would the reaction have been if they assessed us a bench technical....

The ImPACT (http://www.impacttest.com/) is currently one of the more widely used. A lot of colleges use it, as well as some pro leagues.

Good game to get rolling again...frustrations from Saturday, as well as revenge from earlier this year.

Rowdy has a nice night (18 & 13) and KVW dominates inside (26 points on 9-13 shooting)

Valpo wins 83-59. 

[6. Illegal contact with an elbow that occurs above the shoulders of anopponent when the elbows are not swung excessively]

In terms of the flagrant foul called on Calliste's elbows to be Bobby's throat, based on the graphic ESPN showed, the only way that Calliste could have been ejected was if he had done this same action to Will, because it was Bogan who had the ball at the time. What Calliste did, according to the rules is equivalent to an off-the-ball foul, just with a little more intention than a simple hand check.

You must have read the ESPN graphic wrong (or they used a different graphic than they have used all season). A flagrant foul is a flagrant foul, no matter who it is committed on. A player for Oregon was DQ'd last night for an off-the-ball foul.

Either that, or you don't know what "making a play on the ball" means in terms of a flagrant foul. When a player has the ball, you must make an attempt to get the ball (usually to block a layup or dunk), rather than just take someone out. That line has no meaning as to whether a player has the ball or not.

Per NCAA Rule Book:
c. Flagrant 1 personal foul. A flagrant 1 personal foul shall be a personal
foul that is deemed excessive in nature and/or unnecessary, but not based
solely on the severity of the act. Examples include, but are not limited to:
1. Causing excessive contact with an opponent while playing the ball;
2. Contact that is not a legitimate attempt to play the ball or player,
specifically designed to stop or keep the clock from starting;
3. Pushing or holding a player from behind to prevent a score;
4. Fouling a player clearly away from the ball who is not directly
involved with the play, specifically designed to stop or keep the clock
from starting; and
5. Contact with a player making a throw-in. (Women) This act shall also
serve as a team warning for reaching through the boundary. (See Rule
4-17.1.g.)
6. Illegal contact with an elbow that occurs above the shoulders of an
opponent when the elbows are not swung excessively


d. Flagrant 2 personal foul. A flagrant 2 personal foul shall be a personal
foul that involves contact with an opponent that is not only excessive, but
also severe or extreme while the ball is live.


What happened is clearly part of c-6, so correctly ruled a Flagrant 1. Had he, for example run past Bobby and thrown an elbow into the side of his head while not involved in "basketball activity", that would have qualified as a Flagrant 2. Even though he got his elbow up, he was running through a screen, which qualifies as a "basketball play", but with the elbow its flagrant.




To Dority, he was bad. There's no other way to say it. When Buggs got in foul trouble, that was the turning point...we had no backup PG last night that was capable.

What happened with the flagrant, I was watching the shot go through the hoop?

Whoever it was that fouled bobby got his elbow up into Bobby's face/throat.

Nope. And not sure what a consultant would do for a basketball program....I'd think if you trusted someone that much, you'd just have them as a coach.

But I digress...I was breaking down their film because I wa coaching a team that played against them. I've been more active on the board lately because I'm no longer coaching there and have had much more free time in my "new life". I'll leave it there (and ask that everyone else does too)

ValpoHoops, aren't you on the VU staff or formerly on the staff?

No. If I was I wouldn't be posting on a fan message board...that's for sure.

Frustrated for sure with that. Felt that with 10 minutes left we went into "play not to lose" mode instead of putting them away.

However, as the resident voice of reason (well, I'll think of myself that way anyways), we still are alone in first place and still control our own destiny for the title. Have to learn from it and get ready for Tuesday and take out the frustration of tonight and the first loss to Loyola on them then.

I think the coaches are starting to learn how to maximize our strengths. We have to be built on speed with the personnel we have.

Not sure I agree with this. I think they're always known the strengths and its just a matter of everything clicking. Like is said, I was at practice yesterday as there was an extremely concerted effort to get certain players to do certain things....almost an exasperated message like "I've been telling you guys to do this all along why is it just now sinking in?" thing.

One of the things I thought about during the mens game tonight was in terms of the speed/pace/aggressiveness the team has. I also talked to a couple of the coaches during the game and they seemed to agree that it's been hard at time to break the players of habits (this is usually really, really, really hard to do) and if you think about the style they played with Freeman at the helm, it was a much more controlled, low tempo game...these coaches would love to score 90 a game but the players are still adjusting to that.

I think it's really a matter of the message, the understanding, the system and the execution all flowing together. Like I said, hopefully this was a sign of things to come.

UIC's largest lead was 11, with 7:52 to play in the first half. I happened to look at my phone during the media timeout at this point and it was exactly 1:30...which is our normal start time for home games.

From there, we "won" 76-39...so I blame ESPN and the men's team for having this evening's game on TV, which led to the women sliding their game up the half hour.

Smoked them in the second half. Defensive intensity was up, offensive aggressiveness was WAY up and the team scored 55...funny how attacking the basket will do that...


Saw some things I really liked from some of the players today...

Tab is Tab, a quiet 18-14 game today to be honest.

Liz was much more assertive on offense...not just making post moves and shooting, she was attacking the rim, making plays

Shaq was very aggressive. If she continues to be aggressive, its going to make things better for everyone

Lexi was very good today. Her first possession, she was the PG and turned it over. After that, she was on the floor with someone else to play the point, and she was very good. She can handle the game if she doesn't have to manage the team, and today was a sign of that (and really was the first time she played off the ball)...also did a nice job distributing

Wiedemann was a different player than normal today...aggressive, looked to drive but always was ready. Made some very nice plays to help the team.

Charae scored our first five points and hit a big shot in the second half during our big run and did a nice job of playing within her game...quietly had a nice game

Carr was solid as well. Didn't take a shot, but did a GREAT job rebounding on the defensive end, which led to her points from the FT line. Did a solid job when at the PG spot just getting the team into things, especially against a couple kids for UIC that are really good on-ball defenders.

Laura hit a couple of big threes in short order, as well as doing a GREAT job on the defensive end - especially in the second half. She was able to disrupt the UIC offense and held #4 (Story) under her season average...and just 4-12 from the floor. 9 pts, 7 reb, 5 ast (3to) and the defense she played was well worth the 32 minutes...and if we could get that from her on a nightly basis it would be a huge plus.

Gina was solid on both ends...tough to say much, she really seems to blend in until you look at a box score.

Abby played well in her few minutes...good hands on defense and was strong to the rim on offense...



Second half was really a beautiful thing to watch. I had the chance to take in practice yesterday and they were working on a lot of the things that I saw in the game today...including being aggressive and it really showed today. Hopefully, that idea continues to take hold and the team continues to score at this rate...defense only has to be "decent" when you score 88.

Not everything was great (you know, like the first half), but after a second half like that, its definitely good to roll with the good and worry about the bad tomorrow.

The team is flat to start. No fire it doesn't seem. Miller has provided a spark with a couple of threes now, as as I write a nice pass to Tab for an and-one. Starting to think we need to, as a team, play faster. Just attack all the time ad throw some caution to the wind.

More importantly, I'm upset that STL walked in, sat down in my row (we are the only two in this row), and sat down without saying hello.

The game tipped off at like 8:07, I think they were waiting, hoping the Iona/manhattan game wouldn't go to overtime....they're currently getting ready to start 2ot there. "Our" game is currently airing on espnews.

Just thought I'd start something on this game on its own. Game starts at 8:00 (CST) and is on ESPNU tonight.

Should the Phoenix lose, we can sew up the #1 seed with a win tomorrow.



Cleveland State is coming of of a couple of tough losses and this is a long trip for Green Bay. They will also be without Cerrone, so they will have to make that adjustment on the fly....

ml, I hope you're reading this.  Is it possible to go ahead and sign up jack as the head coach of the women's program?  If he were at the helm, we'd be .500 at worst.  It's obvious the current coaches are clueless.

I keep wondering if, someday you'll actually post something that would suggest you have an uderstanding of the game. Still waiting.

I hope you're patient...

Ok, I think I know what this is about.  Are you upset that I put together a cool avy for Valpo04 and not for you?  Don't worry, I'll work something up.

No, I'm disappointed that you said in your opening post of this thread that you were going to "break down some womens hoops". I was curious and interested to see that and as of yet, I'm still waiting....

ml, I hope you're reading this.  Is it possible to go ahead and sign up jack as the head coach of the women's program?  If he were at the helm, we'd be .500 at worst.  It's obvious the current coaches are clueless.

I keep wondering if, someday you'll actually post something that would suggest you have an uderstanding of the game. Still waiting.

I hope you're patient...

[ALL THE TIME]

Quote from: Pathfinder on Today at 08:13:35 AMQuote (selected)Quote (selected)A blogger on their website justified the large minutes for the starters in the 30 point blowout; as they were trying to get Jason 1,000 points. Really??  Was this the kids final game??  How friggin weak.  I hope the are exhausted on Saturday.At home, dummy. They wanted him to hit 1000 points at home. Their next two games are on the road.Still weak...but not as weak as calling someone "dummy." 

This happens ALL THE TIME at (insert school here around the nation).

There are two reasons they do it this way:
1) Do it at home in front of friends, family and where they can make a big deal out of it in the arena
2) Get it over with so the focus can be on the next game, rather than on someone needing a couple points for a milestone


Not saying that I necessarily agree with it, but I can in all honesty say that I've been guilty of doing it. ESPECIALLY when the next opponent is a really big game...if they were playing The Little Sisters of the Poor on Saturday (especially at home), they probably wouldn't have done it. However, they are playing the conference leaders, on the road, on national TV...

Good Lord, I think I just defended Detroit...excuse me while I go to church...

We have the talent to be a 500 team at worst

I disagree...I won't get into why I think this, I could type all night. This is an overexaggeration, but donkeys don't win the Kentucky Derby.

I think this team, this year - IF THEY PLAYED THEIR ABSOLUTE BEST FOR TWO MONTHS - could go .500 in HL play...but realistically, 6-7 wins is (and always was) probably about right...hopefully the higher end of that. The next three home games (UIC/UWM/WSU) need to be wins...that's 6 wins and perhaps they get one of the YSU/CSU trip (CSU is beatable again).     And, there should be one more win from the loss at WSU.

Last year, basically the same team went 10-21/5-13...this year is 8-14/3-6 (see above for 11-18/6-10 heading into HL Tournament).


Rome wasn't built in a day...I know patience isn't real big among sports fans...but that's really all we can do...it's not going to happen overnight...but it sure isn't any fun watching them be close and lose games...

GameTracker stopped running at the 2:11 mark (for me at least) so no final numbers

Posts: 10-27...not so good (and did not attempt a free throw...)
Guards: 12-33...also not so good

Really can't say I agree with some of the substitution patterns either, jack, but I'm not at practice, I don't sit in on meetings and I don't know the players personally, so I have to just leave that to the coaches somewhat (not that I have to agree...but its not going to do me any good to post it here...). I do agree that it seems like we take players out who are starting to get going on offense...which is definitely frustrating. I know the situation at the end, Richards was at the table to play defense and there wasn't a whistle so she ended up in the game for offense...which doesn't do much for us.


Going forward, if we only have seven players like tonight (I'm not really counting the 2 minutes Miller played), it doesn't really matter...you have a rotation and you pretty much have to roll with it or someone isn't going to get enough rest. Hopefully tonight wasn't a harbinger of things to come.

GameTracker stopped running at the 2:11 mark (for me at least) so no final numbers, but I really feel like the game was lost in the last few minutes of the first half (3:41 to be exact).

Charae put in a pair to make it 24-23 Loyola at that point, but Loyola went on a 10-2 run to take their halftime lead. Not only does that give them the nine-point cushion, it really serves as an emotional boost for them and a downer for us going to the break.

Post play tonight wasn't very good. We did a poor job at finishing around the basket (all players, not just the bigs) and there were too many turnovers (16 with 2:11 to go). Loyola made some threes, but otherwise didn't shoot anything spectacular (42% or so)...

And again...basketball at its simplest....score more points than the other team, whether that be by scoring a ton or holding them to few...and we did neither well enough in this one.

Anyone thinking we're not defending close enough to Loyola? The difference in the space we allow their ball handler versus the space they give us is not even close.

We don't have the athletes/quickness that they do. They can get into the handlers and stay there, knowing they can recover if beat. Also, they have a couple girls inside who are shot blockers...they know they have help behind them if they allow penetration to the rim.

Scott can't play 40 minutes...she needs a rest sometime. I don't know why Carr isn't playing, but I'm sure there is a reason...and I'll trust that the staff has a good reason.

The "offensive" lineup just can't get a big stop when they get close, and the "defensive" lineup is able to get stops, but can't score enough...