Messages

He was left the most talented roster the Valley had seen in 2 decades.


He took them from the brink of being an unstoppable MM program to absolute dumpster fire the second that roster lost the Weber/Painter recruits.

He didn't exactly go out and leave a healthy bridge behind him.


If it's him good f'n luck. You won't find a single other person in the Valley that is going to think it's going to work out.

How are top assistants with no head coaching experience working out in the MVC? Devries is the only one showing success.

Jacobson has worked out pretty well for UNI


His entire coaching career

1993–2000   North Dakota (assistant) (UND is his alma mater - class of 93)
2000–2001   North Dakota State (assistant) - under Greg McDermott
2001–2006   Northern Iowa (assistant) - under Greg McDermott
2006–present   Northern Iowa - hired as HC when McDermott went to Iowa State

McDermott was an assistant at UND when Jake was a player and 1 year as a coach with him. McDermott hired Jake at NDSU in 2000 and then brought him to UN in 2001.

Look at who was at SIU before him.

He took over for Matt Painter who took over for Bruce Weber. He inherited the most talented Valley roster in probably 25 years.

It's not shocking that his first 3 years were amazing, and once it was actually his roster it fell apart. I get you all weren't paying attention to the Valley at that point, but he was an actual disaster as a HC when he actually had to do something more than keep the train headed straight.

You have better options to go after. He's a great assistant, not much of a head guy.

https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1101619185275293697

Going back to our initial acceptance into the conference, as I recall, UNIFTW was one of our MVC supporters. He is very opinionated and reacts protectively to UNI criticism - sometimes without activating his filter mechanism. But he also is a keen observer of the scene.

What I got from his initial response to the Osipoff Twitter poll results is actually a bit of a mirror of our fan base (and just about every MVC fan base when you think about it). 55% of responants in NW Indiana (or electronically tied into NW Indiana) stated we faced the most adversity in the MVC. 32% said "no."  And 13% didn't know.  I believe his real point was how could all the respondants really know what all the other teams have gone through when most of us, myself included, only casually monitor MVCFANS, and seldom follow other teams' fan forums (1314 and 2014 being two rather obvious exceptions, and I'm sure there are a couple of others).  IMO, that's what prompted the woe is me comment. In that respect, he's got a point. No need to get our knickers in a bunch about it and certainly no need to counter attack. 2014 put our frustration into perspective — part of our adversity is frustration over coaching, not just injuries or player issues.

This here. I had/have little issue with Valpo I'm the conference in general. It isn't a secret I wanted Murray, for a few reason Ms, but as a stand alone 10th option that was present for the Valley, Valpo was/is the best option.

I've never posted here to flame. I came here initially to welcome. The issues the Valpo base with me stem from basically 1 thing and has expanded as everything I say as a slam from there: my take on your facilities. Which I see, because I have been reading, has shifted to almost entirely agreeing with me - even at one or two points specifically mentioning that maybe I wasn't wrong.

As to some reasons why my opinion is somehow invalid based on those other posts pulled

1. I read, and have posted, on many teams conference boards over the years. The only one I still read is this one. The exception I've never posted on is Evansville and maybe Bradley (?).

2. Maybe the issues people have is because they don't read posts that are longer than a couple sentences. I can tell, from experience across a number of forums and topics, that is generally the issue. I can be long winded, I generally don't hold punches. However, it's not out of a hate for a program it's out of an outside observation willing to have a deeper discussion than can be had in short, always friendly, posts. I haven't been on MVCFans, or any other MVC board other than passively reading this, since about October. My father has been going through some extreme health issues which has pulled me away from most boards as priorities have shifted.

3. Having said that the schools that I genuinely have repeatedly gone after are Drake and Evansville. Drake is an instate rivalry and I won't go into it here but they are fan base I genuinely don't like for their sense of entitlement vs what they've actually achieved over the last 50 years since their 1969 final four team (which required one win in a very different college athletic landscape). Even this year they share the title, but the reality is UNI had a shot at being the 1 seed going into the final week. That's a sign it was a bad conference this year. Not to take away from the job DD has done with them this year and what he took over though.


Evansville is the one program I genuinely don't like as a program. I've covered why at length many places. My thoughts, and many others, can be summed up in the statement of "why public's don't like adding small private schools making a significant jump in competition and what happens when it goes wrong". I have nothing against their fans, per se. My issue is they have been the epitome of private school issues when it comes to competing, yet railing against public schools joining.



On this topic, I, largely, have no idea what other schools have gone through with injuries. I know what UNI fans have sat through with injuries and health issues. I also haven't seen another fan base, coach, or beat writers spend as much time talking about their injuries. Maybe no one else has had them and it's genuinely only UNI and Valpo that have dealt with them. For some reason I doubt that though. Maybe it seems worse than it is out of your camp as your users tend to be much more active than others.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

I've been reading.

I've read that the consensus here is that if only Ryan was healthy Valpo wins the league with at  least 12 conference wins.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1101619185275293697

For some comparison, because we've (the rest of is us in the Valley) all read about how hard Valpo has it had this year.

Here is UNIs season

2 year starting PG transfers out

Main back up PG for 2 last 2 years graduated.

2 3 year starters in the front court graduate. They were the top 2 scorers, both top 3 in rebounds, one was second in assists, both top 4 in assists, first and 4th in minutes played.

So before the season starts we are out 3 starters from the year before and a top 7 player.

Then

Starting 2 guard (all freshman team last year) lost for the entire OOC with ankle surgery and shoulder issues. He has also missed more than a couple MVC games with health/injury issues. He was a shell of who he was as an all freshman team player the year before.

So basically down 4 starters from the year before

Then

Starting center lost for the season before the season starts due to a heart issue

So we have our back up center (McDonnell) playing almost all of the minutes at the 5 this year even though he's more a swing 4 and we are left playing without a 4 because the guy brought in to be his back up has been lost for 80% of the season with stress fracture issues.  Meaning we've played the entire season without a true post player and the guy brought in to give depth was lost due to injuries.

We lost our primary gaurd back up to a torn acl half way through the season this year.

Our 6th man has been playing well lately but had back surgery over the off season and wasn't sure he'd ever be able to play again. Took him 70% of the season to feel comfortable on the court. Still some rumors he may have to hang it up after this season for long term health considerations.

Our starting 3, a 3 year starter, is now missing time thanks to taking a shot to the face and testing on that.

A JUCO PG that was recruited to be a key piece for scoring was deemed ineligible by the NCAA because he went to a very poor HS in Alabama that screwed up his transcripts when he went JUCO and no one at the JUCO caught it until UNI stepped in and was going through clearing house certification.



Started a true freshman at PG. Ended up playing a kid at the 2 that was a first year hardship transfer.

So if you're keeping track at home UNI has started it's "best 5" zero times this year. Taking the starting center out if it UNI has started it's "best 5 available" about half the time this season. UNI has had it's full roster available pretty much not at all this season. There was a period UNI has 7 healthy scholarship guys.



Just some food for thought to compare to the rest of the conference


The constant " WOE IS US. WE ARE THE ONLY ONE WITH INJURIES. NO ONE HAS IT AS BAD AS US" gas certainly been noticed by other fan bases. It's left a mark, to say the least. In 2 years your fan base has climbed near WSU and Creighton levels with 1/10000000000 the success.


Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

FWIW UNI released more renderings of our new practice facility. I expect construction to be announced soon ish and start in the spring

Yet to be seen is the renderings of the remodel to the McLeod Center with how it will be connected

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Austin Reaves a Wichita State transfer who looked like he might be headed to UNI as of a few days ago is now also considering Indiana Purdue and Michigan. That can't be good for the Panthers chances. I think it's clear that this kid wants to go P5 and Northern Iowa is just a safety valve. I hope I'm wrong and UNI does get him but this development leaves me less than optimistic.

Those schools were mentioned from the start as landing places. This is just Rothstein throwing crap against a wall to reignite clicks in a topic that hasn't had news in a week. He also mentioned Indiana - who doesn't have an open ride.

He took a visit to Oklahoma and it went poorly. He took a visit to UNI and it went so well he extended by by two days just to hang out with people more. As proof of this he was seen at a restaurant with players 2 days after his official visit. We signed one of his best friends from growing up in Shandon Goldman. He wants to go somewhere he feels welcomed.

Until he shows up in either one of those campuses for an official visit there's no reason to believe anything other than he's UNI bound based in everything I've been told. I was given a % from a connected source that would put him at a high A at landing at UNI.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

UNI is a great school for education, the only problem is jobs in education in Iowa are very limited compared to most states. Most graduates move out of state. It makes you wonder if Iowa is spending collegeic money in the right place.

I wouldn't say most - and this is a recent phenomena. UNI has always really been Iowa's real "state university of Iowa". By percentage UNI educates more Iowans and keeps more graduates in Iowa than either of the other two. Historically something like 80% of UNI grads stay in Iowa. Iowa has a tuition forgiveness for teachers to keep them in Iowa and get them in needy districts. However, that's changing for political reasons and I hate politics so I'll leave it at that.

You live in DSM so you can correct me but much of what is causing DSM and a Cedar Rapids and Des Moines to boom is banking and insurance. UNI grads flock to those places in massive numbers because of it.

The issue isn't spending money at the university on the wrong programs - it's the state of Iowa and their general governmental approach to what and how to find things. Education and public and social health services aren't on that list sadly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In terms of our alumni, WHY DOE VU72 and many others assume our alumni are less wealthy than Drake and Bradley?   

The best source I have seen on alumni wealth is this database at the New York Times, which I think is pulled from a large academic paper based on tax filings.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/valparaiso-university

Bradley does look pretty similar to Valpo, but most of the other private schools in the MVC (as well as others that often get mentioned as models on this board) do seem to have significantly larger pools of top 1% and top 5% people to hopefully draw large and/or lead donors from. Although UNI, which apparently is having incredible fundraising success, has by far the worst percentages, but perhaps when multiplied out by a larger alumni base it still results in a larger sized pool of wealthy donors? I am not sure how much bigger UNIs alumni population is compared to the other schools on the list. If you are curious about any other schools that I didn't list, you can search for thousands of them at the site. The numbers I pulled are from the "Outcomes" section. Also interesting to look at is how wealthy the families of current students are, which is likely to be a pretty good indicator of what kind of pool of future donors each university will have to rely on 20 to 40 years from now.

Alumni in Top 1%
Loyola...3.9%
Xavier...3.7%
Drake...3.5%
Gonzaga...3.3%
Butler...2.8%
Valpo...2.3%
Bradley...2.3%
Evansville...1.7%
UNI...1.3%

Alumni in Top 5%
Drake...23%
Butler...22%
Loyola...17%
Gonzaga...17%
Xavier...15%
Bradley...14%
Valpo...13%
Evansville...7.8%
UNI...7.3%

(modified post to add Evansville, bad oversight on my part)

UNI is known, nationally, for 2 things (excluding athletics): our tremendous teaching program and our highly regarded business/accounting/CPA and MBA programs. The only PhD UNI offers is an EdD. We don't have a law school. We don't have pre law. We don't have med school or pre med or most biology programs that doctors start in. We have some engineering but it's not the forefront of our university.

We don't produce a ton of people that will go into jobs making 150,000 or more.

UNI knows what it does and it does it very well. Almost to a fault and detraction of other programs. Our nicest - by far - academic buildings are the Curris Business Center and Schindler Education Building.

The issue in Iowa and being a state school is the BoR tries to keep duplication of majors and top programs down. Iowa has law and medicine. Iowa State has engineering, ag and a hell of a vet school. That leaves UNI - the Iowa State Normal School as we were founded as - with business, education and social work. Not a ton of money coming out of those areas for 99% of graduates. UNI does have one of the best Mental Health Counseling masters programs  programs in the country and one of the first 3 accredited nationally back in the day but Iowa and Iowa State get the PhD programs.

That would explain those numbers pretty easily. We have some very high ranking people in the business world - but with over a million living alumni it's tough to have enough teachers, social workers and accountants making 150k+ per year to get that number higher.

Drake doesn't have those worries because they aren't state controlled. They can run a med and law program. They also run such a poor business program it lost accreditation a few years back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's clear that we are extreamly defensive about the quality of our school.  UNIFTW never questioned our school's quality, and we, in uber-defensive mode, lost sight of his key point:  THE DEFERENCE BETWEEN UNI AND VALPO IS THE THE INTENSITY AND ATHLETIC FOCUS OF ALUMNI SUPPORT. If we had even 50% of that, we'd at least have a rejuvenated (not necessarily rebuilt) ARC and other facility upgrades that let us not only talk the talk but walk the walk. His reference to "another Evansville" was a statement of how a once great program came into the MVC and couldn't perform to MVC standards.  Loyola was looking the same way, buy, evidently, they turned that around.  We came into the MVC with a great winning tradition, but we could just as easily duplicate Evansville's failure -- or Loyola's emergence.  But our tepid investment in the changeover, to outsiders based on past MVC experience, is to them an indicator that will exist until we find a way to prove them wrong.  And arguing about acadedemic standards and tuition costs a'int gonna get us anywhere. The mirror that UNIFTW held up to us is this:  are we ready to commit to playing (in all of it's aspects) with the bigger boys?  If yes, let's see some action.  If no, why are we in the MVC?  You can't have it half way. Yoda said it.  "Do.  Do not do. There is no try."

This is a good post. The best indicator of future happenings is past happenings. Look at the MVC and look at our past happenings - especially with private schools (which is why there is so much animosity between the public and private schools). The two more recent additions - other than Valpo - are Evansville and Loyola. You can point to their Final Four run this year as proof of something but time will tell how sustainable or lightning in a bottle that run was...I will point you to George Mason and VCU for what I'm talking about. Even beyond the mens basketball side of things Loyola and Evansville, as I've already mentioned, are pretty much bottom of the conference in every single sports, every single year. Add Drake in to that - who has dominated WBB and softball the last two or three years - yet is also in the bottom 3 or 4 of the all sports standings every single year. 


There is a division in the MVC between public and private schools. It comes from the public schools athletic departments being significantly a head, top to bottom, of private schools. Traditionally the response from private schools hasn't been "How do we get better?" it's been every excuse they can think of and then even excuses that are just random words thrown together.

Go back to before last basketball season and remember what all MVC fans were sold by Valpo fans. When expectations are set at that level and the results happen the way they did can you really blame anyone for looking at past results as an indication of what may come? Especially when discussions like this thread happen at that school? Get upset with me pointing that out all you want. That's fine. I hope you aren't that. I hope UNI and Valpo are 1-2 every year in MBB. I'd enjoy that.

jhk

You're the one who came on here compared us to Evansville a program that gets absolutely zero respect from the MVC and is constantly looked down upon and blamed for the conference's ills. Meanwhile we actually did better than Loyola in their first year despite a ton of adversity. We have shown plenty of evidence that we have the ability to be and will be a good addition to the MVC.

The comp to Evansville is pretty simple. UE had a ton of success in a lower league before joining the MVC. They joined the MVC and had to step up a level or two in competition and spending. They didn't, and didn't see the value in it. They fell way behind and haven't really recovered. They finish in the bottom 2 or 3 of the all sports standing every year. I've run the numbers going back to about 2004 and they were bottom 2 or 3 every single year that's not me exaggerating. Here we are nearly 30 years later and nothing has changed. They can defend themselves because of Ford Arena - but that isn't theirs. They rent it. The city built it. The city runs it. The city controls everything about it. Evansville has to pay, IIRC something along the lines of $10-15k per game to play there. I googled their practice facility...that's what UNI has currently in the university Rec Center. It's something but it's not anything special.


Their baseball facility? I'll leave that to someone with baseball - the SIU newspaper and their ranking of MVC baseball facilities from 2 years ago. Evansville was dead last. https://dailyegyptian.com/1192/sports/ranking-the-mvcs-baseball-stadiums/


Meeks Field house is legit just a high school gym down to the retractable hard plastic seats. It's nice looking as it as just renovated last year but it's just a nice high school gym that houses womens basketball and volleyball.


I lied about UNI's pool being bad. I looked at UEs...gross.


Their facilities are a bit nicer than I'd have guessed but exactly what I'd expect from them. They've put money in the last few years from the looks of it.


Again, the Evansville comp - and trust me I'm not the only one to bring that out - is as I said before based on being behind on facilities and a stubbornness to admit that investing in the AD top to bottom is needed when joining. That puts up barriers in addition to the those that private schools already complain about. I'm not really willing to wait 25 years for Valpo to figure the facility thing out and have their city build a big hockey arena so that they can rent it for basketball games.


Doing better than Loyola in the first year? Don't care. I still don't trust Loyola's long term viability. Even at that look at the money they spent upgrading their facility. Gentile Arena is still a glorified HS gym but it's nicer than the ARC. They announced a practice facility that had been in the works since before this basketball season - meaning even at a PIG team they were fund raising for practice facilities.


I've said here that it's a bit chicken and egg when it comes to facilities and success. Which comes first or should come first? If you want call the chicken success and facilities the egg all I can say is it's tough to create more chickens without them having eggs to develop the chickens in...

Who was trying to get into a passing contest? I new other facilities had been discussed so I thought I'd share UNIs plans. A few questions were asked and  went downhill fast. Enjoy continuing to find excuse after excuse after excuse as to why things can't have. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In terms of facilities, where do you feel UNI is right now vs the rest of the MVC?

As it stands today? Which sports?


For basketball/volleyball:
In terms of arena I'd say we are 4th or 5th with Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Bradley and Illinois State all potentially equal or a head. I also struggle to actually rate schools that don't own their own arena (Bradley, Evansville) a head of campus arenas. I realize Evansville has a bigger and newer arena but man that set up just doesn't do it for me as a CBB fan. SIU I haven't been too since it was updated but they put a lot into it recently. Our arena has many things missing that these upgrades will address - hanging video board, ribbon boards, a better sound system. Those were cheaped out on when the arena was built as was video and score boards and it's killed atmosphere since it opened. Been a major complain since day 1. Poor planning didn't account for adding nice boards and systems in place. Banners in the arena will be updates with bigger and better (brighter colors and updated custom UNI font). Signage updated. Once the renovation is done I can't imagine anything other than MSU being a head of it. UNI could rank a head of it simply because of how intimate the atmosphere is compared to something the size of JQH Arena. I know many schools don't play volleyball in their main facility, and rather the play in some side gym that is smaller and not as well maintained. UNI doesn't do that. Volleyball is played in the same facility.


In terms of practice area? I'm not 100% who has practice facilities (I've not looked to be honest to be 100% sure) but I'd guess we are probably somewhere in the 4-7 range. We have access to many courts to practice, but most of them are in the UNI Rec Center and aren't in fantastic condition like you'd want from a D1 practice space. Once the new place is built I can't imagine it wouldn't be at the top or top 2.


Locker rooms, team meeting rooms, training rooms? Top 3. UNI just renovated all that about 4 years ago through a 100% private endowment for that project (noticing a trend for how UNI pays for the athletics? The U might operate on state money but the AD doesn't). The individual who donated the money has since passed away and UNI wore a DH patch on their uniforms and special warm ups in his memory. Here is a video when it was "unveiled" publicly.

Since then it has been updated again with signage, LED lighting, more amenities, etc.. Another video with Coach Jake giving a tour of it to a local paper at the same time frame

In terms of softball? It's a pretty nice facility, but I don't know a ton of about other facilities. A quick Google shows us mostly in line but it's off campus and it's owned by the City of Cedar Falls. UNI has plans to build a new softball facility on campus just across the street from the basketball arena/football stadium which would be right on the south side of the track. I would imagine it would be pretty nice. Probably not the best in the conference but top 3. I'd assume the goal would be hosting conference tournaments. I would guess it would be similar to the style that Drake has and from what I understand Drake has the best facility is the best in the conference.


Track? The outdoor facility has been good enough for us to host multiple MVC meets. It got a few upgrades about a decade ago. It needs - and will get as part of the project - to be completely torn up and new asphalt laid under and a new surface. There will also be new bleachers and stands and boxes put in. That was held back in the past because of a facility that was behind it (a high school). That is now gone, thus the room for the new softball complex as well, and space to add things in. It will get new lights and a new infield that will be multiuse.


Soccer? I can't imagine we aren't the bottom. We play at a off campus soccer complex (like 5 miles off campus) that has probably a dozen fields. It's where the youth association and high schools in the area play. There's no stands, it's not great. I've seen most other soccer facilities. This too will be moved back to campus. I believe it will be the infield of the track. That should move it to top couple in the conference. Probably in the 3-4 range.


Swimming? I don't have any clue. I'll guess mid pack to lower mid pack simply because I know what our facility looks like and I can't imagine D1 facilities being any more basic than ours is. It's not bad it's just very basic. I'd imagine most - outside of the power schools - are all pretty similar.


Tennis? It was the worst. The on campus courts were a disaster. Thus the team practice and played at a club in Waterloo. So I'd guess they were okay but not idea. UNI just opened, this year, a new one million dollar tennis facility. It's not all UNI though I guess. It's like 51% UNI and then 49% split between the city of Cedar Falls and Cedar Falls CSD. I have not seen them but they were built to host conference championships, larger high school meets, and so on. I'd assume they are nice? Like any good PR spin they were called first class by the AD. Shockingly tennis doesn't get a ton of coverage so there aren't a ton of photos of it.

Baseball when we had it had to be 100000000% the worst. It wasn't on campus, it was a 20 minute drive. It was a dump. Horrible. It was part of the reason we dropped baseball - along with Title IX.

Rumors of a few womens sports being added to balance Title IX as well. I've heard rumblings what they are but won't comment on that yet in terms of potential facilities. They won't be MVC sports so it won't matter in this context anyway I guess.

Our non major sports have lagged - and that is going to be fixed. Donors weren't happy with the facilities and not being on campus. We've had ADs with vision but never the level our current AD has. It's making a major difference.

Who was trying to get into a passing contest? I new other facilities had been discussed so I thought I'd share UNIs plans. A few questions were asked and   went downhill fast.

Enjoy continuing to find excuse after excuse after excuse as to why things can't have.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Really,   is censored?  Wow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As opposed to Gary?


I'm not sure how this turned into wanting to   on UNI. I never once questioned Valpos education - simply that for a psych major the 36k vs 7k seems a bit silly. That was first thrown at me for UNI being cheap because it sucks.

I was attempting to have a dialogue about facilities and it instantly got shifted by a very defensive mob mentality to "UNI get state money so it can't be compared" when everything I brought up was based on donors paying for it.

Then it turns into a UNI is next to a town historically known for being filled with crime so by proxy through a joke I'll say UNI sucks.

I guess I'll let you have your echo chamber of "welp, our president just doesn't want it done and there's nothing to we can do about it"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aren't we also working on an (admittedly long overdue) renovation of our baseball field set to start this summer? That should help enhance our competitiveness scheduling and fan interest there as well.

Yes. As well as running cable out there for television.  My understanding is that we committed to adding the broadcast capabilities for softball and baseball when we joined the Valley.

IIRC per the ESPN agreement you don't have a choice. I believe the agreement the MVC has is all facilities must have the ability to broadcast at HD levels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aren't we also working on an (admittedly long overdue) renovation of our baseball field set to start this summer? That should help enhance our competitiveness scheduling and fan interest there as well.

Yes. As well as running cable out there for television.  My understanding is that we committed to adding the broadcast capabilities for softball and baseball when we joined the Valley.

IIRC per the ESPN agreement you don't have a choice. I believe the agreement the MVC has is all facilities must have the ability to broadcast at HD levels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just to add some data to this conversation.

Here is what it actually costs to go to a school on average based on student's family income. You can look up over 1,500 schools, including Valpo and UNI. The price difference is about $4,000 per year, for all but the wealthiest students.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/09/30/444446022/what-youll-actually-pay-at-1-550-colleges

And here is how much various state schools are subsidizing their athletic departments with university funds. This is something that private schools do as well, but of course the difference is that at a private school all the money is coming from students and donors, whereas at a state school you do have that third input of taxpayer money.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

Interesting. The first link shows young Valpo alums riddled with debt and can't donate are actually in the same boat as UNI alums. Good for the goose but not gander argument?

The second kind is one I debunk frequently. The total UNI reports is slightly different than everyone else in that the total is almost all for scholarships. UNI would give that money out to the general student population if it didn't to athletics. Where UNI differs from most is UNI charges the athletic department for scholarships and treats that as a separate line item. Almost every other school lumps athletic scholarships in with the total scholarship line. What that means is they give it to the AD to "support the AD" and it literally goes right back to the university to pay the scholarship bill. Our AD confirmed that last week in the unveil of the plan as well. It's a hilariously back asswarda way of doing it.  Makes UNI an easy target for discussions such as this and about 10 people understand what the number actually represents, which leads to a ton of misinformation spread and used against the athletic department.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And UNIs endowment has doubled in the last 15 years (IIRC).

That also doesn't fit that narrative that alumni can't donate because they are riddled with student loan debt.

Both come to covering one years tuition/board plus about 2k.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And again this has nothing to do with state funds. This is about donations being raised to create these facilities. That can be an apples to apples comparison.

David Johnson and Kurt Warner, as much as we'd like them too, aren't donating millions per year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

UNIFTW I am glad you reignited a good conversation to help some of us see from a state school perspective.  Please keep contributing, it is appreciated.  Even if we disagree, it's still great to ignore politics on these forums!!!

I think you will find that many of us agree with your points on enthusiastic and willing donors.  But I don't think we can look past the fact that we graduated 50%+ less alumni every single year than UNI does.  We have been extremely lucky to have director level alumni from some major American corporations that have helped build our academic and student buildings.  These were hands down our biggest needs or else we might have been able to steer their generosity into athletics more after our Sweet 16 run.

You commonly go back to 2004 as a pivotal year for UNI.  Back at this time, how were the academic buildings (age / quality of structure) and other critical university infrastructure for UNI?  I am uncertain, but I might imagine that if you have indeed invested in large athletics programs since that time you either had less needs on campus infrastructure OR just flat out had 2-3x the donations and income (state subsidies or otherwise).

Here is where we run into a brick wall.  Valpo did not invest in infrastructure for decades and our academic buildings, physical plant and student centers were woefully behind the times.  We lost $100 million just investing in non-athletic infrastructure from 1990 - 2015.  Sadly, this was a time when our sports programs were excelling (basketball mostly) and we lost the momentum to take the alumni donations and put them into sports.

Is it possible UNI had less need for physical plant and infrastructure (non athletic) at the times they invested in the sports program?  Just want to get your take on that concept.

Our campus in 2004 wasn't great. Since 2004 almost all of it has been renovated, much of it significantly. We've torn buildings down and rebuilt them since 04. Gutted entire buildings and redone them. Turned an old gym into a state of the art IT department and computer engineering/sciences building. Hell, I graduated in 2010 and moved out of Cedar Falls in fall 2013 after buying a house less than a mile from campus in 2008 and selling it when I moved. I go back now and I can't believe what the campus looks like. I'm on my phone so I can't really go through all of them but anyone who left campus in 2004 wouldn't believe what it looked like when the incoming freshman that year would graduate with. Same with that class and the class of 2012. Sure from the university side of it that can be attributed to state money being spent - but again we are a state university. That is our stake holder spending money. The alumni association is setting record donations. The performing arts center is setting record donations and getting bigger and bigger events on campus every year. Scholarship club records every year. Yes we have more alumni but *start mostly sarcastic sentence* our alums are coming from a piss poor educational directional school with cheap education and standards. We don't get any good jobs. Imagine what someone that also gets a psychology degree makes when they lay 36,000 for it. Imagine what that must be worth for salary. 

UNI hasn't had the money - contrary to this idea that UNI is just rolling in state money WHICH IT ISN'T AND NEVER HAS BEEN - prior to the university determining waiting for the money to be available wasn't the right move. Presidents, which we have had 3 of since the , and athletic directors, also 3, have all made it their number one priority to engage alumni. Encourage donations. Get people involved. It is priority #1 in many ways for every part of the university.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I thought Wartburg was a really good school! hmm...

It is. Where is that Wartburg piece of paper going to get you that UNI isn't? Name me on company anywhere in the world that will go "Oh, Wartburg. Impressive. You're way more qualified than this person from UNI." It won't happen. Ever. For any degree. I'm about to graduate with my Masters in Organizational Development and Strategic Leadership with an emphasis in supply chain management. I'll be 3 classes from an MBA and will probably add that on as well next year, from an NAIA in Cedar Rapids. Undergrad tuition there is 36k. I pay $600 per credit hour for my masters. It's a 36 credit program. Where is this degree going to get me that the same degree from UNI - which is one of the best business schools in the country...not top by any means but it is very well known and ranked...? Not a single place. The only reason I'm not getting it from UNI is distance.

I started at Wartburg. I feel pretty confident speaking about the quality of education there. It's not better than UNI.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[$15,320/student]

It's also incredibly dumb to complain about stage funding. It's a state university. The state owns it. The state is the stake holder. Just as your stakeholders fund you.

Maybe UNI should charge 30,000 more for tuition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

State schools and private are two different animals.  Although they contend in the sports arena, I am not sure that Valpo and UNI contend a lot for the students.  This is not a comment on level of education, because that would be silly to argue over.

When I was at VU in 2001 I paid approximately 50% of full asking price by being an athlete and other academic scholarships.  In today's scenario that would be $18,000/year.

UNI you said was $7,000/year?  Let's add in the state subsidies reported to be $83.2 million in 2014 and divide the number of students.  That could mean the state is off setting $8,320/student/year in 2014.

$7,000 tuition
$8,320 subsidies
$15,320/student

This is not likely the exact number, just as VU isn't taking in $18,000 on every student.  So admittedly we continue to discuss hypotheticals.

UNI
-has roughly 6,000 more paying students
-is in a market 2x as big as Valparaiso
-has municipal arenas that they share and get state money on
-has a legit football program with big time alumni

I want you guys to thrive, that means we get to compete at higher and higher levels.  I think you will find that most of us are happy to see UNI succeed on the arena front and sports programs in general.

As I was thinking about this and you numbers. Why do you get to use half Valpo tuition for your numbers but not what most UNI students  probably pay in just tuition - let's call it's half as well. That takes UNIs number down to 11,000 to your 18,000.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And again this has nothing to do with state funds. This is about donations being raised to create these facilities. That can be an apples to apples comparison.

David Johnson and Kurt Warner, as much as we'd like them too, aren't donating millions per year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And again this has nothing to do with state funds. This is about donations being raised to create these facilities. That can be an apples to apples comparison.

David Johnson and Kurt Warner, as much as we'd like them too, aren't donating millions per year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk