Messages

Watching the championship tonight, this still hurts.

He was exactly the kind of player that could have put this team on his shoulders and made a Sweet Sixteen run. 

As much as I hate the NBA, I wish him the best. 

Did Todd say on the radio Saturday that Alec was going to have surgery? For a stress fracture? This seems unusual.

I'm no doctor, but what about putting some pins in.  He is going to have to play/compete to prepare for NBA draft.

Watching our old Summit League hold their championship on ESPN 2, and the announcers are praising the attendance figures, full arena of almost 12,000 for the semifinals last night and again for the final game tonight. The atmosphere is truly "energized."

And if Oakland doesn't choke, there are 15-20K at JLA tonight

[You]

LeCrone protests too much as he spins for the media and directs his staff to do so as well: "We weren't disappointed with an outcome," LeCrone said... "We met as a staff and said, 'That was great' (the excitement and atmosphere). Nobody was pouting, nobody was glum, nobody had their lower lip stuck out because Oakland lost. I tell the staff all the time, what happens in the rectangle, we have no control over. We weren't one bit disappointed, not a bit. We were actually energized. That's what I didn't want characterized, that we were disappointed. We weren't."

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/college/2017/03/06/horizon-tourneys-success-ou-udm-shoulders/98805574/

I have to agree with LeCrone. It doesn't seem quiet in the arena, the games have been exciting and I, myself, have not been disappointed.

I think it just makes you guys feel better to poo poo what has become an exciting and entertaining tournament. If you guys want to sit at home, complain all you want about this tournament. You are the ones missing out. I have enjoyed this tournament immensely. You guys really are missing out. Downtown Detroit is a whole lot more entertaining then I would have imagined. Haven't seen any sign of a slum or crime problems. 

BBTDS,

Thanks for coming and being so open minded.  glad you had fun. 

Hell, Milw even made the title game exciting and it appeared both teams had support tonight.

Next year we will be in the new arena and have the Qline being able to take people from downtown to midtown no problem. 



 

The problem isn't that Valpo has become too good for the conference... It's that too many teams like Detroit consistently suck and drag the league down.

Then why haven't you gone undefeated and won at least one 1st round game?

You guys just don't get it.

• Since Butler left, the Horizon league has had the worst run ever in the NCAA Tourney.  It is currently at five straight 1st NCAA round losses. 2012-2016
• This year has showed that we don't have a team capable of making a run in the tourney.
• The "Butler money" is gone.  So, find me another place that will give each school $20k.  no one is earning any decent Tourney money soon.
• You don't think ESPN had a say in this?  In 2014, they had to switch locations from GB to the Nutter with only two days notice- They incurred the additional travel cost and stress of moving their "team".  That expenditure may not seem like alot, but in the penny pinching corporate world it was un-budgeted.
• There are only 6 other conferences that still have their tourney at the campus sites.  They are America East; Atlantic Sun; Big South; Northeast; Patriot; SWAC.  Those are the conferences you want to compare the Horizon league to?

A few answers to your points:

1. Yes. Five straight years. And if we keep sending middle-of-the-pack teams on a hot streak (like last year), we're going to keep losing NCAA games.

2. Debatable. I could see Oakland or a healthy Valpo making the Sweet 16. It's not likely and wouldn't pull a ton of money, but if you want consistent deep runs, you're gonna have to start looking at the B1G.

3. I know there aren't a lot of deep pockets around, but if the HL and it's member schools are utterly reliant on consistent NCAA tournament run money, we need to do some better planning.

4. I have no doubt ESPN has had a say in the formatting (especially the days of the week it's played on), but I don't feel sorry for them one bit. The possibility of switching locations should not have taken them by surprise -- they should know the tournament venue rules before they agree to cover the game. And if they want to be sticklers about it, fine. Play the conference championship at the 1 seed venue no matter what, then they won't have to move on short notice. I know that happened in Cleveland a few years ago in front of a lot of empty seats, but guess what we're seeing in the championship game at the Joe? A lot of empty seats. So what difference does it make?

5. I've never understood the "but other conferences are doing it too!" argument. Did your mother ever ask you if all your friends were jumping off a bridge, if you'd do it as well? Neutral site works much better for high major conferences, which the HL is not. Motor City Madness does not make the HL any more like a high major than Jordan sneakers make a middle schooler play like Michael Jordan himself. As a matter of fact, a few more years of 15-seed, cannon fodder autobids from the HL are going to put us moving in the opposite direction.

• We sent only two middle of the pack teams in 5 years.  The other three teams failed (Detroit once, Valpo twice.
• At this point it is debatable, i would love to be wrong, but both teams lost to several inferior teams.
• It's $100k of free money per year.  Someone is paying for you to come play.  Quit being a bunch of whiny babies.  You want to be in a 'bigger conference" then act like it.
• The difference is the cost to them to have to make travel arrangements(flight, hotels, etc).  That is a huge cost to them. They control the tv games they have with us.  That's the difference it makes.
• If all my friends were from the America East; Atlantic Sun; Big South; Northeast; Patriot; SWAC, then no.    There are 32 conferences in D1.  Only those lower six are doing exactly what you are wanting to do.  Your argument is conflicting- you say you want to leave and play your tourney in St. Louis, but then you say we should have it at some high school sized gyms?  FYI, the Horizon has been moving in the opposite direction, that is my whole point.  Last year, Middle Tenn State beat heavily favored MSU.  quit making "seed" excuses

Also, from the Horizon Leagues perspective: Valpo had already been actively flirting with another conference. So why should they be looking to keep us happy?

Because we've been the toast of the conference since Butler left. In the six seasons since then, Valpo has won the conference or tied for first five times. We also had more postseason wins last year than anyone else has had. I know it was the NIT, but other teams have had opportunities and blew it. Even our NCAA losses have been more competitive than the others:
2012: 15 Detroit lost to Kansas by 15 points (65-50)
2013: 14 Valparaiso lost to Michigan State by 11 points (65-54)
2014: 15 Milwaukee lost to Villanova by 20 points (73-53)
2015: 13 Valparaiso lost to Maryland by 3 points (65-62) (I won't mention the blown call at the end)
2016: 14 Green Bay lost to Texas A&M by 27 points (92-65), while Valpo makes a run to the NIT final.
2017: I'd be surprised if anyone not named Valpo or Oakland is able to keep their game within a single digit margin.

You know this, I know this, everyone on this board knows this, but if/when we leave that will be a huge loss for the Horizon League. I know we haven't had the FF runs that Butler has had, and if we did, we'd be playing our conference tournament in St. Louis and competing for at-larges.

"Even our NCAA losses have been more competitive than the others"

So what?  Using your twisted logic, I could argue the following:

2012 - Detroit loses to Kansas by 15, but Kansas' next loss wasn't until the final game.  Hey, Detroit beats Kansas and they are playing Kentucky for the championship
2013 - Valpo loses to MSU by 11, but MSU didn't get past the Sweet Sixteen, so your loss is worse than Detroit in 2012.
2014 - Milw lost to Villanova, but Villanova would lose their next game to UConn (Champ) the next game.
2015 - Valpo loses to Maryland, who would then lose their next game to West Virgina, who would then lose their next game to Kentucky, who would then only make it to the Final four.

So, by six degrees of Kevin Bacon, your two losses are both worse than Detroit AND Milw.  Neither team you lost to played either team in the Final game.

There is a reason no other conference is calling for Valpo.  You are not as good as you think.   

You guys just don't get it.     

• Since Butler left, the Horizon league has had the worst run ever in the NCAA Tourney.  It is currently at five straight 1st NCAA round losses. 2012-2016
• This year has showed that we don't have a team capable of making a run in the tourney.
• The "Butler money" is gone.  So, find me another place that will give each school $20k.  no one is earning any decent Tourney money soon.
• You don't think ESPN had a say in this?  In 2014, they had to switch locations from GB to the Nutter with only two days notice- They incurred the additional travel cost and stress of moving their "team".  That expenditure may not seem like alot, but in the penny pinching corporate world it was un-budgeted.
• There are only 6 other conferences that still have their tourney at the campus sites.  They are America East; Atlantic Sun; Big South; Northeast; Patriot; SWAC.  Those are the conferences you want to compare the Horizon league to?

This is one year that I would start the most talented player at every position from the get-go - regardless of experience.  IMO that translates to Micah-1, Tevonn-2, Shane-3, Alec-4, Derrik-5.  This could be a Top-25 season - throw caution to the wind and go for it!

Top 25 with a new coach, with no previous head coaching experience and only 3 years asst coaching.  Really?

More importantly, will a Horizon League team win an NCAA tourney game? 

If he wins an NCAA tournament game he is, without a doubt, the greatest player we've had.

I was about to disagree, and require Sweet Sixteen or Elite Eight.  However, given a rookie coach, I agree one win in the tourney would do it as well.

Still don't know how UIC and NKU are getting these recruits.

Could you please elaborate on UIC "getting these recruits"?

I can't speak for Mick, but their freshman class has 3 3-star players (according to Verbal commits), a redshirt Fr that was 3 star as well.   This is for a team that finished 5-25 last year.
Look at this example (see other offers, if it doesn't open):

http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/k-j-santos

I can only guess that the recruiting has to do with
1) McClain's last 5 years (before last) spent as an assistant at IU.
2) McClain was a decent coach at Wyoming. 

Valpo comes in at #70. 

http://www.collegesportsmadness.com/article/13499

The Horizon is at an all time low.

If you count Butler, the league hasn't won an NCAA tourney game since 2011.  That is a five year stretch.  The longest losing streak prior was from 1995-97.

1) Pathetic for every single team involved, when you consider all of the talent that some of the better teams possessed during this time.
2) A few teams were able to pull off early season upsets, but never parlayed into sustained success.
3) Not one coach capable of winning a big came when it mattered.

Hopefully some of the new coaches will win in the NCAA Tourney.

Agreed for most part, but much of the lack of success had to do with under seeding and not sending the best team each year. The Horizon made this worse last year by moving the tournament.

The recent coaching turnover is a positive sign though. The league is actually getting a lot better recruits for the high salaries HL coaches are paid (compared to other mid majors)

"Not sending the best team each year"

The Horizon "sends" the team that wins the tourney.  That and the under seeding are proof of the failure of every Horizon team since Butler left.

I didn't do it, but I felt someone would:

http://www.customink.com/designs/udmshirt/wen0-00an-qqzg/hotlink?pc=HL-142344&utm_campaign=hotlink_201601&utm_source=hotlink&utm_medium=email&utm_content=viewbutton&cm_mmc=hotlink-_-5-_-Body_txt-_-viewbutton

That is the same one that Paris Bass was at last year.  Maybe the Horizon will be good again and we can start sending one player each year.

Best of luck to Alec.

The Horizon is at an all time low.

If you count Butler, the league hasn't won an NCAA tourney game since 2011.  That is a five year stretch.  The longest losing streak prior was from 1995-97.

1) Pathetic for every single team involved, when you consider all of the talent that some of the better teams possessed during this time.
2) A few teams were able to pull off early season upsets, but never parlayed into sustained success.
3) Not one coach capable of winning a big came when it mattered.

Hopefully some of the new coaches will win in the NCAA Tourney.

Kampe has a history of taking these guys in and giving them another chance. I can't think of a time it has, publically, backfired.

They were able to keep Tommie McCune's latest arrest quiet at the time.  They just announced he left the team to focus on academics.

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2016/06/22/kendrick-nunn-transfers-oakland

Why was he released?  Grades, disciplinary or his own choosing? 

I believe own choosing.  Request for transfer for both.

Detroit has signed three JUCO's.

Incorrect.

http://www.wxyz.com/sports/detroit-mercy-releases-paris-bass-from-its-program

Paris Bass released.  No big surprise.

Wait a second, you were in the NIT Championship game and don't get invited to next year's preseason NIT?? 

No offense Talks, but your analysis needs some work.

1) The Chris Jenkins transfer was retracted almost immediately after it was mistakenly released.
2) Austin Arians announced his transfer from Milw on 3/26.
3) Akeem Springs has announced his transfer, and days ago was already playing to visit Minn tomorrow.

This place is gonna be unrecognizable next year.

Actually, it will be the same:

Another year, no NCAA Tourney wins.

I guess the only difference will be no more Butler money

According to a late update last night, he is looking for an agent:

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/sports/2016/04/05/oaklands-kay-felder-weighing-nba-options/82677112/