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Game 5 vs SIUE on ESPN3 @ 6pm CST

Started by VUSWIM08-12, December 09, 2020, 10:37:36 AM

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VUSWIM08-12

 7.5 hours to game time. Valpo favored by 11, SIUE kept it semi close with a solid LSU team this year, but got wrecked by SLU and narrowly defeated by NE Omaha. Narrow 5 point win by Valpo in 2018. 13 point win at SIUE last year. I hope we can put the hammer down and win by 15-20+.

Valpo-79
SIUE-71

wh

#1
It's impossible to predict an outcome with any confidence because we have too many schizophrenic shooting veterans. This won't change until roles change. Mileek, for example, is the mostly consistently inconsistent player I've ever seen in a Crusader uniform. Some players run hot and cold. Mileek runs from scalding to ice berg with absolutely no rhyme or reason. Robinson is another example, albeit to a lesser extent. Jacob has already shown me enough that he should be getting starter's minutes along side Ben. This is a tandem to be reckoned with for years to come. Mileek can still play an important role as a backup to both. Just my 2 cents.

vu72

Quote from: wh on December 09, 2020, 11:34:10 AM
It's impossible to predict an outcome with any confidence because we have too many schizophrenic shooting veterans. This won't change until roles change. Mileek, for example, is the mostly consistently inconsistent player I've ever seen in a Crusader uniform. Some players run hot and cold. Mileek runs from scalding to ice berg with absolutely no rhyme or reason. Robinson is another example, albeit to a lesser extent. Jacob has already shown me enough that he should be getting starter's minutes along side Ben. This is a tandem to be reckoned with for years to come. Mileek can still play an important role as a backup to both. Just my 2 cents.

Not to get WAY out in front of this, but... It seems to me that the guys we are losing to graduation have shown their upside potential and it hasn't been that high. These are four and five year guys with little to show other than an occasional good night for Mileek, Eron or Nick.  Role players which of course are needed bu can be replaced. The level of the talent for the next class coupled with another year of experience and zero graduations, make next year something to really be excited about.
Season Results: CBI/CIT: 2008, 2011, 2014  NIT: 2003,2012, 2016(Championship Game) 2017   NCAA: 1962,1966,1967,1969,1973,1996,1997,1998 (Sweet Sixteen),1999, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2013 and 2015

justducky

Quote from: wh on December 09, 2020, 11:34:10 AMSome players run hot and cold. Mileek runs from scalding to ice berg with absolutely no rhyme or reason. Robinson is another example, albeit to a lesser extent.

Eron, Nick and Mileek will undoubtably give us some big nights and help in some important wins. That is where senior role players can really shine. Unfortunately none of them fit my definition of being a "go to guy" come crunch time. Yes, all of them might receive the pass because they are the open man but I don't want any of them being our primary dribble option while looking for that late shot clock or late game key play. Granted that Eron and Nick could succeed in a pinch but I'm hoping that Clay and others might relegate them to being third or fourth options. Because of this need Matt may have to overlook the slow start shown by Edwards and allow him generous room to make freshman mistakes. I am only saying this because we now glaringly have no obvious "go to guy" choices.

crusader05

I still think the Jury is out on Nick due to his injury last season. He looked good against Purdue and he's a physical player who drew fouls and will muscle to the basket which we need to open up some 3s for JO and Clay and Connor.

AlaskaCrusader19

Hopefully this is much easier than last year's game when JFL had to will our team back to victory after an awful start. Need this one tonight. Hail Crusaders!

Chairback

Mileek also has so much talent that is just not used because he cannot stay on the court.  He really is gifted with skills.

If he ever figures it out he will be a phenomenal basketball player.   However I'm afraid it's too late. 

NativeCheesehead

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Mileek missed his calling as a tight end. Athletic, good hands, size. Not being sarcastic here.

crusadermoe

Nick seems to be flying under the radar as a very good player.  He's been injured a lot.  I'm optimistic he will have a key role in whatever clutch situations we face late in the year.

Yes, Mileek is a huge puzzle.  He has that amazing 3-point stroke, but can't find any finesse when he is defending.  Really an odd combination. He does seem like a good blocking tight end.  Maybe we have the next Jimmy Graham?

vuny98

Quote from: crusadermoe on December 09, 2020, 04:12:03 PMNick seems to be flying under the radar as a very good player.  He's been injured a lot.  I'm optimistic he will have a key role in whatever clutch situations we face late in the year. Yes, Mileek is a huge puzzle.  He has that amazing 3-point stroke, but can't find any finesse when he is defending.  Really an odd combination. He does seem like a good blocking tight end.  Maybe we have the next Jimmy Graham?
Mileek off the bench is perfect. For a multitude of reasons, he should not be a starter in my opinion.
Clay, Krikke, Eron, Nick, JO would be my starting 5. Mileek 6th man, Sackey provides a boost off the bench. I'd love to see more of Barrett, Goodnews, Edwards.

VALPO LI

Just keep chucking up bad 3's where is the inside game?
Shine on Vu

truth219

This team has a long way to go before they will compete in the MVC. Offense and defense both pretty awful.

hailcrusaders

A sloppy half for sure against a mediocre opponent, but it's a double digit lead.

This team takes too many threes. We did last year too. Coming into the game, guys not named Ognacevic are a total of 23 for 97 (24%) from deep this season, and I think we're about 1 for 13 in the first half this evening.
#CrusadersForever

NativeCheesehead

Even Mitch Trubisky thinks our three point shooting is inaccurate.

GoVU

A win is a win, but I don't think our current offensive scheme will get us far in MVC play. Seems every other possession the ball is passed along the perimeter until a bad shot is chucked up as the shot clock goes off. Even Ickow noted how, when we draw up an actual play during a timeout, it is usually rewarded with an easy basket. I don't know why Lottich continues to want to stick with the motion offense.

nkvu

Now I begin to see what Edwards can bring. Looks like he is gaining some confidence.  Now he just has to continue the process. JO got a lesson on playing inside in D1. Just being tall isn't enough to get it done. He'll learn, and as he puts on some muscle he'll show he can play inside as well as shoot the three. Really high ceiling for him I think.  Barrett can stoke it.  Goodnews showed well too. All in all the new guys have demonstrated why they're on the team and what they bring. Now we'll see how quickly they can progress to where they can contribute to wins against better competition.

SanityLost17

I don't want to pass judgement on the motion offense just yet.   I know by the last half of last year they were running the motion really well and getting some good motion to the basket and some wide open 3's.   1st half of last year we looked AWFUL running the motion and I got here and ripped Lottich apart for never getting the ball to players with momentum toward the hoop.   That did change as the season went on. 

Here is what I know.   I really like everything about the Freshman/Sophomore class.   A lot of inconsistency yet and lots of learning to do, but if they stick around the whole time you can see the potential.   I really like the look of our recruits coming in next year too.   

I know everyone is out of patience and wants to be really good now, and I think we would have been really good now had JFL stayed.  Seriously, add him to this team and I wouldn't be surprised if we would have won 2 more games already.   But with him leaving we have to wait on these freshman to develop a bit.  Sackey is starting to settle into his role as an assist and tough defense guy and starting to play a little more under control.   

As others have said...   The senior class I think has great leadership but in general they are 3 role players.   Eron is pretty slow and has no verticle at all.  Nick can be a stat filler in the categories people don't always see but will never be a consistent go to scorer, and Mileek was always a project and although he improved a ton and is a solid contributor at times he is still not what we need to ascend to the top half of the MVC. 

So... THIS YEAR IS FREE BASKETBALL and doesn't really matter.    Which is kind of a good year for it for us since JFL left.    Again, who knows who stays the whole time and who goes.    But I like the mix of talent we have in the Fresh/Soph class.   You have some shooters, some stat fillers, some leaders, and some drivers.    If they bulk up, embrace defense, and work together they could really be something.   

vu72

Not sure why all the downs on this team.  Clearly they are improving and improving quickly. Look, we just badly beat a SUIE team who beat Northern Illinois by 20.  Northern lost to UIC by 4 and Ball State by 9.

SUIE was as athletic as anyone we've seen and we out-rebounded them and forced 25 turnovers.  Going on the road again will be a new challenge.  If we can come away with a win it will tell us loads about potential going forward.
Season Results: CBI/CIT: 2008, 2011, 2014  NIT: 2003,2012, 2016(Championship Game) 2017   NCAA: 1962,1966,1967,1969,1973,1996,1997,1998 (Sweet Sixteen),1999, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2013 and 2015

crusader05

I have to keep reminding myself that we don't know how disrupted their practices were, although it feels like every week we learn about a new player having to quarantine multiple times, or in Clay's case, may have actually been sick with it.

I think that if they hadn't absolutely laid an egg against UIC the way they did we'd all feel a lot better. It's how one event can have an outside influence. I think losing on the road to both Vanderbilt and Purdue would not have felt as negative for us even with the blown lead if it wasn't for that game.

I tend to be less the sky is falling and probably more unnecessarily optimistic than others on this board but I just think that at this point it's "free basketball" as was said above and for all we know we won't even finish the season or conference play and so I'm trying not to read too much into any win or loss.

wh

Quote from: SanityLost17 on December 10, 2020, 08:25:49 AM
I don't want to pass judgement on the motion offense just yet.   I know by the last half of last year they were running the motion really well and getting some good motion to the basket and some wide open 3's.   1st half of last year we looked AWFUL running the motion and I got here and ripped Lottich apart for never getting the ball to players with momentum toward the hoop.   That did change as the season went on. 

Here is what I know.   I really like everything about the Freshman/Sophomore class.   A lot of inconsistency yet and lots of learning to do, but if they stick around the whole time you can see the potential.   I really like the look of our recruits coming in next year too.   

I know everyone is out of patience and wants to be really good now, and I think we would have been really good now had JFL stayed.  Seriously, add him to this team and I wouldn't be surprised if we would have won 2 more games already.   But with him leaving we have to wait on these freshman to develop a bit.  Sackey is starting to settle into his role as an assist and tough defense guy and starting to play a little more under control.   

As others have said...   The senior class I think has great leadership but in general they are 3 role players.   Eron is pretty slow and has no verticle at all.  Nick can be a stat filler in the categories people don't always see but will never be a consistent go to scorer, and Mileek was always a project and although he improved a ton and is a solid contributor at times he is still not what we need to ascend to the top half of the MVC. 

So... THIS YEAR IS FREE BASKETBALL and doesn't really matter.    Which is kind of a good year for it for us since JFL left.    Again, who knows who stays the whole time and who goes.    But I like the mix of talent we have in the Fresh/Soph class.   You have some shooters, some stat fillers, some leaders, and some drivers.    If they bulk up, embrace defense, and work together they could really be something.   

Great post. As everyone knows motion is difficult to learn and execute effectively. Unlike set patterns, players are in constant coordinated motion, always looking for a momentary breakdown in coverage in order to get the best shot available. It relies far less on rote and far more on critical thinking skills. Opposing players (especially bigs) get tired and frustrated from endless chasing. The closest thing to motion I can think of is a FB hurry up offense with a QB and receivers adept at reading defenses and improvising in the moment. Matt is a heady, thinking man's coach. If he didn't think we have the talent or bb IQ to pull this off or it wouldn't give us a clear advantage over other offenses, we wouldn't be running it. Trust the plan.

valpo64

 While Sackey can occasionally show some flashes of good ball, he still is very inconsistent and cannot score on a regular basis.  As I have said before , he plays like a fart in a skillet.  Once we can get more dependable point guard play,  I think this team has good potential.  Hopefully it will develop and that along with our young guys getting experience and learning the system, this team will be fun to watch and will be very competitive.  The group of Jacob, Goodnews, Sheldon , and Conner have alot of potential  and are fun to watch.

justducky

#21
Quote from: wh on December 10, 2020, 12:26:51 PMUnlike set patterns, players are in constant coordinated motion, always looking for a momentary breakdown in coverage in order to get the best shot available. It relies far less on rote and far more on critical thinking skills.
Quote from: wh on December 10, 2020, 12:26:51 PMMatt is a heady, thinking man's coach. If he didn't think we have the talent or bb IQ to pull this off or it wouldn't give us a clear advantage over other offenses, we wouldn't be running it.

With the exception of Emil everybody Matt has recently recruited fits this system well. Experience aside, lots of near interchangeable parts featuring as much uniformity in size, speed, ball handling, and outside shooting as possible. There were times last year when 4 guys were on the floor who would bring the ball down the court situationally. This year and next that number could expand to 5. The growing number of 6'8" guards is the prime reason that traditional post play fixtures are a disappearing animal. Truth be known, I'm thinking Freese-Villien will need to hit some 3's when healthy to garner significant playing time.
Quote from: valpo64 on December 10, 2020, 12:39:08 PMThe group of Jacob, Goodnews, Sheldon , and Conner have alot of potential  and are fun to watch.

All 4, given more experience, look to fit in perfectly with the Lottich offensive system.

EddieCabot


SIUE's game today cancelled due to a positive COVID test within the SIUE program.  Concerning since they played Valpo just a few days ago.