Messages

I won't give a score- but best of luck tonight and in the OOC Valpo.   

Just took the time to look in detail at the BU-Northern box score.  Some very interesting facts:

Butler's starting 5 scored 88% of the total.  The reserves (6) scored a total of 6, all by Roosevelt Jones.
Northern's starters scored 72% of the total which shows more depth than BU.

BU shot 21 FTs compared to 8 for Northern (similar to our result)

BU relied on the 3 ball, shooting 18 versus Northern's 12. Northern did not win via the 3 as they only shot 33%, nothing unusual.

Northern out rebounded the Bulldogs 35-31. 

The reserves for each team played virtually the same amount with Northern's reserves playing 57 minutes to BU's 55.

Northern pretty much beat them on many fronts, not just a lucky bunch of 3's.  it appears to be more lopsided than the score even though BU lead most of the way.  They have a bunch of work to do but do have Brad Stevens at the helm.  I'm sure they will be fine.

I agree.  But one other stat that stuck out to me- Northern State scored the last 12 points of the game- Butler didn't score nor stopped the scoring for almost the last five minutes.   

The Big East called- then hung up!

[1]

For what it's worth ...

Here's how The Sporting News College Basketball Yearbook sees it:

1, Detroit
2, Milwaukee
3, Butler
4, Cleveland State
5, Valparaiso
6, UWGB
7, Wright State
8, Youngstown State
9, Loyola
10, UIC

All-conference team
Ray McCallum, Jr., Detroit
Eli Holman, Detroit
Trevon Harmon, Cleveland State
Tony Meier, Milwaukee
Ronald Nored, Butler

Player of the Year -- Eli Holman, Detroit
Newcomer of the Year -- Roosevelt Jones, Butler
Coach of the Year -- Ray McCallum, Sr., Detroit

Those two show me that whoever wrote this has no idea what they're doing!

Agree with this as it applies to all-conference honors. Based upon last year's production, Kaylon Williams would have been a far more logical selection ... and Ray McCallum, Sr. simply can't coach.

As for the ranking of teams, it looks good to me. I don't see how Butler could be ranked ahead of Detroit given that these are done on paper. Furthermore, Detroit was selected as a No. 9 seed in the NCAAs and Butler was picked as a No. 11.

For the record, the preview was written by Joe Maxse, who formerly covered Cleveland State for the Plain-Dealer.

Yea, Maxse has covered boxing the last few years.  The last time he wrote an article about Cleveland State was in 2009.  Sadly, he is still able to get paid for doing very little.  I would take Woods(IndyStar), Nagle (DDN), Lazerus (Post Tribune), or Demovsky (GBPress Gazette) any day over Maxse.

vu72,

Are you talking about the Butler yuku board/  Because I was just there and don't see any thread about pre-season picks.

Yea, this isn't really news.  they have two divisions of 6, so they are going to be different.

Also, their tourney is usually at Quicken loans.  Which ALWAYS helps schools like Kent State and Akron.

somehow, this point seemed to pass most of us by-

.228 and he still manages to outrun a police officer?? 

Just because he ran from an officer doesn't mean he got that far. Heck, the officer probably caught him, then when writing up the charges put that he fled from an officer.

Please read the link!  8)

somehow, this point seemed to pass most of us by-

.228 and he still manages to outrun a police officer?? 

Was supposed to be the point man for Milwaukee this year.  Sucks for them and the Horizon!

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/6851441/milwaukee-pg-kaylon-williams-arrested-traffic-stop

Brad Stevens as an Assistant.  Interesting.

http://detnews.com/article/20110804/SPORTS0203/108040468/1133/SPORTS/UDM%E2%80%99s-Ray-McCallum--MSU%E2%80%99s-Draymond-Green-make-USA-team

A Pamida eh?   Whatever floats your boat.  The "get out of the Ho League" thread pops up every year, sometimes multiple times.  I'm sure 'ya all wanted out of the old Mid-Con for quite a few years. 

As usual on a message board, the few that are ignorant of what's at stake are singled out and quoted on another board.  Most of us know Butler is not going anywhere, much less the A10.  Am I happy with the Horizon?  No.  Is there a current alternative out there?  No.  It would take a major shakeup of the A10, MVC and Big East......... then a basketball only league with Butler, Xavier, Marquette, Dayton, Depaul, Memphis, WKU, SIU........ schools within a days drive of Indy that don't play D1 football to satisfy me.  Yes, I know this won't happen, so, as I've said many a time on the Butler board, the alternative is to improve the play in the Ho League.  Valpo, CSU, Detroit (except for it's coach) and maybe Loyola (which has quite a few nice recruits interested) are doing their part. 

Calling Butler a Pamida might get some laughs, but it shows there is ignorance on every message board.  Pamida's don't go to the championship game once, let alone consecutive years.

I would add that UWM is doing it's part as well. 

I'm probably not that intelligent Butler fan you referenced, but I'll chime in anyway.  I'll also acknowledge that as a middle-aged guy who's been close to the program for 30 years, I have a much different perspective than the 20-somethings who dominate most message boards.

My outlook for next season is much like it was for this past season.  I've got questions about who will step forward to fill in for key departures, but I'm very confident that the coaching staff will have these guys competing and improving throughout the season.  I don't know what that will translate to in terms of wins, but I'm excited to see what the freshmen and sophomores can do with their opportunity.

I'm also not as confident as Jimmy that Butler is destined to become just another Horizon League program.  Jimmy and vu72 will make arguments that the UWM and Valpo programs are on par with Butler ... Butler's 16 NCAT wins since 2001 (vs. 3 by UWM and 0 by Valpo) would indicate otherwise.  That doesn't mean anything going forward, but in terms of actual achievements, Butler's program has been on a different level.  Lastly, history seems to indicate that Butler has been able to sustain a competitive program despite losing some pretty good players.  In 2002, Butler loses HL POTY Rylan Hainje and all-time assist leader Thomas Jackson to graduation; 2003 team makes Sweet 16.  In 2006, Butler loses HL POTY Brandon Polk to gradutation; 2007 team makes Sweet 16.  In 2008, Butler loses HL POTY Mike Green (and 4 other seniors) to graduation; 2009 team wins 26 games and earns NCAT at-large bid.  In 2010, Butler loses HL POTY Gordon Hayward to the NBA; 2011 team advances to National Championship game.  Again, all that doesn't guarantee anything, but does provide some evidence that Butler has been able to move forward after losing some pretty good players.

Lastly, I do give credit and respect to other Horizon League teams.  I think that Gary Waters has done a great job at CSU and his '09 team that won the HL tourney and beat Wake in the NCAT was one of my favorites.  I also think that the UWM teams that Pearl assembled in the mid-2000's were vey talented and played with a lot of intensity.  I certainly wouldn't criticize any fan for getting excited about their own team.  Jimmy is correct in stating that Butler and several other mid-major teams have raised the bar, so it can be hard for fans to get excited about every team that wins 20 games if they don't have any success in the post season.

I have to say it was a well thought out and respectful post.

if I ever get to Hinkle, I will let Zville buy me a beer! 

Good Luck Homer.

Didn't I call this a few weeks ago? 

I also want to add my early preseason Horizon League Halves (in no order):

Top Half= Butler, Cleveland State, Detroit, Milw, and Valpo

With YSU as a darkhorse.

Bottom Half= UIC, Loyola, WSU, GB

If you notice, most of the bottom half of the conference/league is made up of new coaches who will have relatively new recruiting classes and lineups. YSU doesn't fit the bottom half, as they did before, because they didn't change coaches recently, and they have a good amount of returnees for this coming season. WSU also doesn't totally fit this, but they have to find someone to replace Vaughn Duggins now.

and Evans, and Tabler, and Land.  Not to mention the two other guards that left. 

Also, my speculation was an early one.  I will probably do a more complete version over the summer when we have a better idea of new arrivals and other transfer outs.

I also want to add my early preseason Horizon League Halves (in no order):

Top Half= Butler, Cleveland State, Detroit, Milw, and Valpo

With YSU as a darkhorse.

Bottom Half= UIC, Loyola, WSU, GB

Anybody who thinks Detroit will win the conference is forgetting that Ray Sr. is the coach, not Brad Stevens.

Any coach who has Eli Holman in the Horizon and doesn't run the ball through him on even 50% of possessions needs his head examined.

I can't argue your 1st point at this time. 

However, if you look at our roster- we are the only team that had all 5 starters in double digits (and #6 at 8.6).  The two biggest problems we had was no defense (my current theory is we played with only 10 players) and team chemistry- we had too many scorers.  Our top six players all went for over 20 at least once.  It is a nice problem to have- BUT it is still a problem going from game to game when everyone wants the rock.

Kids just don't wanlz into D1 and star unless they are Brandon Wood.

VU72

Brandon Wood waltzed into Southern Illinois and averaged 3.7 points as a Freshman- then sat a transfer year at Valpo (practicing the whole time) and then starred in what was practically his Junior year.

Give credit where credit is due- Ray McCallum Jr did quite well as a Freshman, playing against Jr's: Nored, Mack, Wood, Williams, Montgomery, Harmon.  Sr's: Cole, Little, Kreps, Duggins, Evans, Boyle, Fletcher, and Perine.

The Horizon had the best combination of guards I think I have ever seen at once.

 

I wanted to clarify my post as well guys.  I thought I read on the NWtimes about Homer possibly retiring.  I don't want to be accused of starting rumors.

If Mack comes back, you still have Butler as  a favorite, until someone knocks them off 

As we have seen with a guy like Jay Harris, regardless of how good they were in high school, it takes some time to get up to speed for the college game.  That is, unless you are Matt Howard or Gordon Hayward.

Well, McCallum jr did ok going up against all the great upperclassman guards this year 

Great analysis though VU72.

So the big 3 remaining questions for next year are:

1) Did Shelvin Mack just play himself into the NBA these past few weeks?

2) Will Homer come back?

3) Will Brandon Wood come back?