I'll give her one more try, do we still have a chance of being top 6? I hope Lottich and staff can string together some wins . The talents there but the coaching hasn't been . New game, new opportunity! Let's go !
Matt in this week's episode of Making Excuses Weekly: When's the last time we played a game healthy?
Todd: um... Saturday.
Matt: ok but when was the last game before that?
Todd: idk - never?
🤢
They are going to be short handed again, but I'll let someone else break the unfortunate news.
Think this will either rally the troops or finish um off. I'll go with rally.
Quote from: M on February 25, 2019, 06:41:08 PMThey are going to be short handed again, but I'll let someone else break the unfortunate news.
Nah, you can just tell us now. We're all adults here...
I'm sorry man, but nothing pisses me off more than "I know something but I can't say," on a fan message board.
Guess you'll be pissed off for a little while then. 🤷♂️
Quote from: M on February 25, 2019, 06:41:08 PM
They are going to be short handed again, but I'll let someone else break the unfortunate news.
Think this will either rally the troops or finish um off. I'll go with rally.
So, if you think it will rally the troops, is it really "unfortunate"?
In any case, thanks for the info. You're the man.
Yes it is unfortunate and yes I think it could rally the troops...like a win one for the gipper type thing.
No it's unfortunate you feel the need to validate yourself on an internet message board by claiming to have "insider" info. And heck, maybe you do. But does ruining other's sports day make you feel better?
This board has been above that in the past. And thank you to those that do have some knowledge on this board who either do pass it on when they're able, or don't hold themselves above us as fans by teasing it when they can't.
Ok 👍. This board of people hiding behind screennames, calling for jobs is above me alerting you all I've heard the team will be short handed and allowing the proper people to break who and why. I'm going to need to refresh on the terms and conditions for this page again....
I'm going to take a guess: Fazekas is having his surgery or someone else (Golder? Sackey?) is being shut down for the year. That or perhaps somebody is transferring. I understand there's been some rumors around Smits and Sorolla's recent IG post seemed ominous to me.
But none of those really screams win one for the gipper. Well, maybe Fazekas going into foot/ankle surgery.
I don't appreciate the Gipper analogy. You, my friend, are the one hiding behind a screen with that anallogy. Idk what you could possibly be referring to that would deserve a comparison to Reagan's first big role as an actor in his portrayal of an ill-fated football star George Gipp in the 1940 film classic, Knute Rockne - All-American.
Hold my Pepsi 🤦♂️
Quote from: M on February 25, 2019, 08:22:18 PM
Yes it is unfortunate and yes I think it could rally the troops...like a win one for the gipper type thing.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 26, 2019, 07:11:25 AM
I don't appreciate the Gipper analogy. You, my friend, are the one hiding behind a screen with that anallogy. Idk what you could possibly be referring to that would deserve a comparison to Reagan's first big role as an actor in his portrayal of an ill-fated football star George Gipp in the 1940 film classic, Knute Rockne - All-American.
Hold my Pepsi 🤦♂️
Huh?
Quote from: M on February 25, 2019, 06:41:08 PMThey are going to be short handed again, but I'll let someone else break the unfortunate news. Think this will either rally the troops or finish um off. I'll go with rally.
I guess I'll break the news. Coach Lottich sustained a lower body injury during practice and will not suit up for the game. He will be regulated to pacing the sideline. :lol: :lol: :lol:
This is sad news since the NCCA had just granted him a half year eligibility to be a player coach. This is why he had been practicing with the team.
I just assumed dude was correct that someone was out and was showing off. That may still be the case. But I swear to Harre if he's BSing I'm gonna troll so hard.
Quote from: M on February 25, 2019, 08:22:18 PM
Yes it is unfortunate and yes I think it could rally the troops...like a win one for the gipper type thing.
Per Twitter quotes this evening, Lottich expects the team to be a full strength. Maybe a smokescreen?
🤷♂️
If the news is Lottich is on the shelf for a game while Mrs G & Mrs F get to call the end of half shots, I'm all in.
https://twitter.com/pjstarsports/status/1100551724673060865?s=21
Uggg. Please don't lose to Brian Wardle.
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1100569473285795841
Quote from: VUBBFan on February 26, 2019, 09:25:17 PM
https://twitter.com/MichaelOsipoff/status/1100569473285795841
Wow. I knew Bakari had surgery but I didn't know it was his 3rd time. That's brutal. Well this might explain some of the struggles this season.
I humbly and sincerely apologize for being so hard on him.
That is a BIG PROBLEM that needs to be addressed by the Athletic Department and the MBB program.
Why the hell wasn't the fan base/public told of this?
Don't give me the arguement that it has to do with the requirement to keep individual's health records private. A general statement about this does not violate that — note: I have made a living in that business environment.
Leading into the beginning of the season it makes ZERO difference, except, if handled well, it helps to manage fan expectations and gives the kid some breathing space. It's a normal thing.
But hiding this only creates conjectuture and speculation. Bakari has been unfairly clobbered all season (myself included at times - sorry ) without understanding the context. I can understand game to game gamesmanship, but this was an overriding mistake that hurt the kid, hurt our fans and has contributed to a growing negative vibe that has been and will be hard for this team to overcome
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 26, 2019, 10:34:28 PM
That is a BIG PROBLEM that needs to be addressed by the Athletic Department and the MBB program.
Why the hell wasn't the fan base/public told of this?
Don't give me the arguement that it has to do with the requirement to keep individual's health records private. A general statement about this does not violate that — note: I have made a living in that business environment.
Leading into the beginning of the season it makes ZERO difference, except it helps to manage fan expectations and gives the kid some breathing space. It's a normal thing.
But hiding this only creates conjectuture and speculation. Bakari has been clobbered all season (myself included at times ) without understanding the context. I can understand game to game gamesmanship, but this was an overriding mistake that hurt the kid, hurt our fans and has contributed to a growing negative vibe tbat will be hard for this team to overcome
I was just jumping on the board to make the same point when your post appeared. Amateur hour in the Athletic Dept. rears it's ugly head once again. It would be 1 thing if Bakari had some rare disease that he wanted to keep private, but bone spurs? Another bizarre, unforced error by someone. I can only think of 2 reasons for this - either complete stupidity about managing public relations, or an arrogant FU it's nobody's business, including our loyal fan base.
Speaking of unforced errors, I wonder if the team will show up this year for their scheduled pre-tournament practice session?
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 26, 2019, 10:34:28 PMWhy the hell wasn't the fan base/public told of this? Don't give me the arguement that it has to do with the requirement to keep individual's health records private. A general statement about this does not violate that — note: I have made a living in that business environment.
Why are people so surprised. This information has been out there, just not blared loudly or e-mailed to each and every fan personally. When he transferred from Nebraska his profile noted his problems. At the beginning of the year it was said he had additional surgery done to his ankle during the off season. There was even a twitter photo of him using a skate board crutch. If you missed the news about it, it is not the fault of the administration or coaches that you were not informed.
Granted there was not a lot of detail, but that is the privacy part and there is no reason to keep saying something every week just to make sure everyone knows something that is somewhat personal. I know I miss some things but I don't blame other people for not making sure I know about it.
Quote from: VUBBFan on February 26, 2019, 11:19:04 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 26, 2019, 10:34:28 PMWhy the hell wasn't the fan base/public told of this? Don't give me the arguement that it has to do with the requirement to keep individual's health records private. A general statement about this does not violate that — note: I have made a living in that business environment.
Why are people so surprised. This information has been out there, just not blared loudly or e-mailed to each and every fan personally. When he transferred from Nebraska his profile noted his problems. At the beginning of the year it was said he had additional surgery done to his ankle during the off season. There was even a twitter photo of him using a skate board crutch. If you missed the news about it, it is not the fault of the administration or coaches that you were not informed.
Granted there was not a lot of detail, but that is the privacy part and there is no reason to keep saying something every week just to make sure everyone knows something that is somewhat personal. I know I miss some things but I don't blame other people for not making sure I know about it.
This is athletic department spin and not even close to reality; otherwise, this article wouldn't be so newsworthy, which it is. You can do better.
Quote from: wh on February 26, 2019, 11:45:14 PM
Quote from: VUBBFan on February 26, 2019, 11:19:04 PM
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 26, 2019, 10:34:28 PMWhy the hell wasn't the fan base/public told of this? Don't give me the arguement that it has to do with the requirement to keep individual's health records private. A general statement about this does not violate that — note: I have made a living in that business environment.
Why are people so surprised. This information has been out there, just not blared loudly or e-mailed to each and every fan personally. When he transferred from Nebraska his profile noted his problems. At the beginning of the year it was said he had additional surgery done to his ankle during the off season. There was even a twitter photo of him using a skate board crutch. If you missed the news about it, it is not the fault of the administration or coaches that you were not informed.
Granted there was not a lot of detail, but that is the privacy part and there is no reason to keep saying something every week just to make sure everyone knows something that is somewhat personal. I know I miss some things but I don't blame other people for not making sure I know about it.
This is athletic department spin and not even close to reality; otherwise, this article wouldn't be so newsworthy, which it is. You can do better.
Irregardless of his ailing ankle, I saw enough of him last year to be glad that we develop other G. He takes early shot clock deep three's and doesn't box out or rebound. He has played basketball for most of his life and doesn't have fundamentals just flash....
Nothing worse than the injury bug hurting a promising career. I feel bad that I have been mean at times but do not feel bad that I am mad at him for wanting the ball in the final minute. Sometimes you just have to accept you have lost a step and you need to let the next guy up handle end of game situations.
Whenever you see a big year to year drop in performance (any sport) there is usually a medical explanation. Pure head case declines are the exception and not the rule. With that said I knew from this board that he had an off season foot surgery. I also knew he was playing like crap. What I didn't know and am still speculating about is the exact correlation between the two.
Are we now unanimously against Bakari having the ball at the end of halves, games and shot clocks? :whiteflag:
I am a nurse and can assure you that HIPPA laws are no joke. It's absolutely none of your business as a fan what the medical history is for this young man.
Valpo goes into the evening as 4.5 pt. underdog. The game played against Bradley at the ARC was when Fazekas injured his ankle early but the Crusaders managed to win by 11 points. It would be nice to come full circle and Fazekas have his first big game since coming back. Also, in the first meeting our two bigs combined for only 4 rebounds. Fortunately, Golder had 8 rebounds. Will need more presence on the boards by Smits and Sorolla tonight, plus would be a bonus if Golder is fully healthy.
We will start slowly offensively, but defensively the teams will slug it out. Valpo will be down 5 with 40 secs left in 1st half 25-20, at which point Bakari will miss a wild 3 and end the half. 2d half, more defensive intensity, but we fall back to 32-23 with 11 mins left. We make a flourish cutting the lead to 35-33 with 8:23 left. Valpo gets 3 chances to tie or go ahead and rushes 2 breaks and misses FTs, and then an ill advised 3 leaves it 35-33 with 630 to go. Bradley opens the lead to 7 44-37. Valpo presses with 2 mins to go, cuts lead to 48-44 but can't quite get the turnovers, commits a few fouls and loses 56-51. Valiant, gritty effort on the road, but our lack of shooting talent does us in again.
Quote from: Valpofan15 on February 27, 2019, 08:56:29 AM
I am a nurse and can assure you that HIPPA laws are no joke. It's absolutely none of your business as a fan what the medical history is for this young man.
Quite right, HIPAA is no joke, but it's also not universally applicable.
The question is whether the university is considered a covered entity under HIPAA. There's an argument to be made that they might qualify as a provider, and thus a covered entity, if treatment provided by the training staff qualifies as medical care, and the staff are employees of the university or qualify as business associates. On the other hand, the university has the option to be a hybrid entity, with some components functioning as a covered entity (training staff, student health clinic, etc) while the rest of the university remains outside the bounds of HIPAA.
Of course, if Bakari (or any player of the age of majority) gives his permission for information to be released, it can be released - the whole point of HIPAA is to put the patient in charge of his own information. Maybe he kept it quiet because he didn't want other teams trying to cross him over all the time on a bad ankle, who knows.
I would definitely challenge your assertion that a player's medical history is 'absolutely none of [our] business'. I'd say a player's privacy interest in his medical information takes precedence over a fan's curiosity, but the business of sport rests on a foundation built out of sports fans. Some aspects of player health are directly relevant to our interests, though maybe not complete or detailed health histories.
Quote from: PlumStreetBum on February 27, 2019, 02:48:06 PM
Quote from: Valpofan15 on February 27, 2019, 08:56:29 AM
I am a nurse and can assure you that HIPPA laws are no joke. It's absolutely none of your business as a fan what the medical history is for this young man.
Quite right, HIPAA is no joke, but it's also not universally applicable.
The question is whether the university is considered a covered entity under HIPAA. There's an argument to be made that they might qualify as a provider, and thus a covered entity, if treatment provided by the training staff qualifies as medical care, and the staff are employees of the university or qualify as business associates. On the other hand, the university has the option to be a hybrid entity, with some components functioning as a covered entity (training staff, student health clinic, etc) while the rest of the university remains outside the bounds of HIPAA.
Of course, if Bakari (or any player of the age of majority) gives his permission for information to be released, it can be released - the whole point of HIPAA is to put the patient in charge of his own information. Maybe he kept it quiet because he didn't want other teams trying to cross him over all the time on a bad ankle, who knows.
I would definitely challenge your assertion that a player's medical history is 'absolutely none of [our] business'. I'd say a player's privacy interest in his medical information takes precedence over a fan's curiosity, but the business of sport rests on a foundation built out of sports fans. Some aspects of player health are directly relevant to our interests, though maybe not complete or detailed health histories.
Precisely. HIPAA is all about patient privacy and control. That's why you sign a HIPAA form when you go into a doctor's office in which you specify how your health information is to be handled. The point here is that, with Bakari's permission, it is totally ok to release a high level summary or statement that would help people/fans understand circumstances.
For us to win this game we're going to need some guys to step up on the offensive side of the ball tonight. We need to take care of the ball because Bradley will capitalize on our mistakes. I'm actually expecting a strong defensive effort tonight but I don't know how many points we'll score. We're not a great outside shooting team but maybe we have a flukey hot shooting night and it spaces the floor for the bigs and opens driving lanes for Javon and Sackey.
Fazekas is out with injury again tonight. >:(
So Ryan's the gipper. We won without him the first time against Bradley, and our defense was more intense before he returned.
Go, Valpo.
Evidently it's his thumb this time. We'll likely finish the year without him.
One thing after another with this poor kid. He can't catch a break.
Screw it. Let's tank for the top draft pick.
Quote from: humbleopinion on February 27, 2019, 06:25:38 PM
Evidently it's his thumb this time. We'll likely finish the year without him.
Maybe he can get the ankle repaired and get 1/2 off on the thumb work? Or try to get a package deal on foot work for Ryan, Bakari and Markus? :'(
Well Gents, it's been many years since we've had a conference game mean so much this late in the season, and the first in the Lottich era.
Let's see what they got.
Go Valpo
Golder to the locker room again. It really seems that we're snake bit.
How do we not have better inbounds plays? This is high school stuff.
I think Jay must have set a record for shots missed from one foot this season.
A reflection on this team and it's offensive scheme: We're down 8 points in the first half and I honestly don't know how we come back and win.
Nothing like having a HIPAA debate (and possible student record debate) on a fan board. When I saw the reference to "covered entity", I broke out into hives.
Let's stick to breaking down half court offenses. :)
Bad news: LeBron is out.
Good news: SMITS DUNKED IT!!!!!!!
Better news: SMITS DUNKET IT ... GOOD!!!!
At the under 4 minute break in the first half we're 1-9 from 3. And it's Kaiser who made the 3. Such an amazing offense we have.
Not a bad defensive performance but this team doesn't have enough fire power with the injuries.
Oh no, you know who missed a shot to end the half; here come the hot takes.
22 first half points. And of course it's Bakari who takes the last shot at the half. Kaiser leads the team with 7 rebounds.
I'm sorry but anyone who says this team hasn't given up is delusional or lying.
YES!!!! Just like we drew it up. Freeman with the ball ... shot clock off ....
7
6
5
.....
[insert suspense]
And, he passes! Who to?
Well, Bakari obviously!
3 pointer goes up!
And, it's gooooood!!!!
Oh, wait ... never mind.
Back against the wall. Most important game of most of these players college careers. And we s@"$ the bed in the first 20 min.
Gonna need some bourbon at halftime.
Quote from: mj on February 27, 2019, 07:45:06 PM
22 first half points. And of course it's Bakari who takes the last shot at the half.
I'm sorry but anyone who says this team hasn't given up is delusional or lying.
Being bad on offense and giving up are two totally different things.
Quote from: valpopal on February 27, 2019, 09:51:00 AM
... in the first meeting our two bigs combined for only 4 rebounds. Fortunately, Golder had 8 rebounds. Will need more presence on the boards by Smits and Sorolla tonight, plus would be a bonus if Golder is fully healthy.
So much for that thinking! At halftime, in a combined 20 minutes of playing time Smits and Sorolla have a total of
0 rebounds (Golder injured again was only able to help with 1 rebound).
Quote from: VU2014 on February 27, 2019, 07:46:33 PMBeing bad on offense and giving up are two totally different things
Because it sure looks like the team is playing with fire in their bellies right now.
Quote from: mj on February 27, 2019, 07:50:34 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on February 27, 2019, 07:46:33 PMBeing bad on offense and giving up are two totally different things
Because it sure looks like the team is playing with fire in their bellies right now.
You saying they look like they're not playing with a ton of energy and giving up are still two different things. I've seen teams "give up" in the past and this isn't that.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 27, 2019, 07:53:56 PMYou saying they look like they're not playing with a ton of energy and giving up are still two different things. I've seen teams "give up" in the past and this isn't that.
Did you see the shot of ML and the coaching staff? They all have the thousand yard stare. If it's not the players, then the coaches have given up.
Game over. Season over. Something needs to change.
This is would be painfull to watch if I didn't have this thousand yard stare thing going on.
This team SUCKS - The Coaching staff SUCKS - ESPN+ streaming SUCKS - GO VALPO >:(
I take it back. It's painfull to watch even with a thousand yard stare.
Hey Joe. There is nothing wrong with the streaming. Everything else is a s&@$show.
It has been a long time since I have been this disinterested and disappointed in a valpo team. This stuff is embarrassing. 28 points and 11 minutes left in the 2nd half?!!??
Idk why I watch these games. I already have plenty of negativity in my life.
We should do an over/under on whether we'll score 45 tonight.
Quote from: wh on February 27, 2019, 08:21:57 PM
We should do an over/under on whether we'll score 45 tonight.
40 might be a challenge.
Agree we might end up in the 30s.
Quote from: VU2014 on February 27, 2019, 07:53:56 PMYou saying they look like they're not playing with a ton of energy and giving up are still two different things. I've seen teams "give up" in the past and this isn't that.
Have they given up now in your opinion?
You can say it -- they've given up.
Valpo is making this challenging to watch. We are pretty inept on offense right now...
Quote from: mj on February 27, 2019, 08:27:09 PM
Quote from: VU2014 on February 27, 2019, 07:53:56 PMYou saying they look like they're not playing with a ton of energy and giving up are still two different things. I've seen teams "give up" in the past and this isn't that.
Have they given up now in your opinion?
Hopefully the team hasn't given up, but I know I have.
When Ryan F is out, everyone else is afraid to shoot a three....so many opportunities for outside shots but no one to do it...it must be a defensive coach's delight not to have to worry about any outside shooting....and again there is Sackey, the fart in the skillet, who bounces around the floor but getting nothing done except a turnover now and then. I sure hope we have some shooters next year. There is really no sense to set up an offense with picks for outside shots because we don't have anyone to shoot one, let alone make one. Doesn't McMillen lead us in 3 point %age? It sure has been a disappointing night, especially now with Ryan out.
Shooting 5.6% from 3. Very interesting game plan that ML has drawn up.
Maybe Sunday is better. Maybe next year is better. Maybe the next coach is better.
But I can't remember a time when I was more pessimistic about the future of the Valpo men's basketball program.
Top level mid major conference. Bottom class facility. And an AD with no history of making quality coaching hires. Ug.
1 of 20 from 3. I can do that!
Annnnd Golder get a tech.
Finishing in the top six and avoiding the Thursday play-in-game was the minimum requirement for not declaring this season a failure. Hello PIG! :whiteflag:
I'm glad we are getting this head of steam going. On to St Louis.
Really looking forward to the next "scorched earth" USH talking down to the fans again.
It's so comical to read the same folks who are critical of those of us who are realists finally start seeing things the same way.
If you're ok with this, you have very low expectations. Who can honestly think this is working out?
We finish in 8th place and play the opening game Thursday in St Louis against Ind State.
Say bye bye to the season. What a joke.
Completely and utterly embarrassing.
2-22 from 3. These guys can't shoot.
2-22 from 3....this is a division one program. I will rebound for any of these guys who want to shoot threes just about anytime this summer. Unbelievable
8th place is two spots higher than last year.
Quote from: M on February 27, 2019, 09:04:51 PM2-22 from 3....this is a division one program. I will rebound for any of these guys who want to shoot threes just about anytime this summer. Unbelievable
I'll volunteer along with you. I actually would if asked.
I totally would too (if I'm not out fishing)...got 2 school aged sons that'd help out as well.
Quote from: tiny707 on February 27, 2019, 09:08:01 PM
8th place is two spots higher than last year.
...in a league that's about 10 spots lower than last year.
Yes we shot like crap but I'm gonna blame this on the coaches. I noted early on in the second half how they all seemed to be shell shocked. They were just sitting there without any movement. ML was standing there with his hands behind his back.
Our players were abandoned tonight. Their leadership failed them.
You can't fault a coach for injuries. You can't fault a coach for lack of shooting (though you may wonder why he didn't recruit shooters). You can't fault a coach for things out of his control. But the one thing a coach can control is attitude.
And right now, I'm not seeing great things from ML. You leave your team hanging out to dry like that, you don't deserve to have another season. I hope he can turn himself around in the next two games.
MJ - 10000000% agree. I've said it before but the body language needs to change. Then again, Valpo hoops Weekly - he started off the bat with excuses and has yet to take an iota of ownership for what's going on out there. Not a leader in my eyes. We seriously need to start wondering (regardless of the next 2 games) what happens with this roster. Idk. I could see big movement. Or maybe they all come back and are the team they should be plus 2 good transfers?
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 27, 2019, 08:52:14 PM
Really looking forward to the next "scorched earth" USH talking down to the fans again.
Paul should call the next one "bombing the rubble".
There isn't a sport in the world in which "body language" doesn't reflect how a team is playing. Thus, when a team is playing poorly it can appear that they are going through the motions. When they are playing well they are all jacked up.
Valpo's problem is a significant lack of ability on the roster. Maybe some fans feel that replacing the coach would solve the problem because that's one move and doesn't have them face the fact that the roster is significantly flawed and that requires many moves to fix. There is one shooter who's been hurt. There isn't anyone particularly adept at penetrating and finishing. Rebounding can be a problem because there aren't enough quick leapers on the team. Some are complete zero's offensively when they are on the floor. There isn't a go to guy on the roster.
Now maybe some of the faults on the roster can be pinned on the coaching staff but the thought that coaching is the biggest issue with the performance and that the roster is talented to any great degree is simply one of delusion in my opinion.
JD - I get what you're saying. Makes sense. Just gotta wonder ... why haven't we been able to land some pure shooters? Have we offered? Think of Butler for example who've had those guys who are just plain shooters. Not super tall or anything but can flat out shoot.
Quote from: GoldenCrusader87 on February 27, 2019, 10:16:58 PM
JD - I get what you're saying. Makes sense. Just gotta wonder ... why haven't we been able to land some pure shooters? Have we offered? Think of Butler for example who've had those guys who are just plain shooters. Not super tall or anything but can flat out shoot.
We nearly landed one but Purdue snatched him up. We also offered Alex Hemenway but he's going down to Clemson. Burton was a shooter. Fazekas is a shooter but is injured. Both Golder and Bakari's outside shooting has regressed this season because health or for whatever other reason.
One or two decent shooters doesn't help you from getting blown out by a mediocre Bradley team.
Everyone will have to admit that the coach did one thing right tonight: he pulled Freeman when it was obvious that the game was out of reach. No use risking injury. He also left his necktie at home. Or, they did the humane thing and took it away from him, like they do in jail.
I don't like blaming the coach when Sorolla misses 1 footers over and over, or the team shoots 2 for 20 from three point range. The team is lousy atcommunication and passing. The injury excuses are getting old for everyone, players included. Can't lay Bakari's performance on an off season surgery. The players lost this game.
I think this season could be chalked up to a few things:
a) injuries. everyone is tired of hearing about it but it's a reality. This team is really beat up right now.
b) I think we may have overrated the talent on this roster. We have nice pieces but we don't have many "complete" or well rounded players, right now. ex: I love what Golder brings to the table but his handles and inability to use his left hand is just a glaring weakness. But he still brings a lot to the table and is nice player, but he probably isn't a Top 2-3 player on a great roster. That ankle has really limiting Golder. Our most well rounded (no glaring weakness other than 3pt shooting) player is probably Javon Freeman and he's only a freshman.
c) I have been hard on Lottich and maybe too hard at times with all the injuries this team as suffered, but I think he needs to improve on developing an offensive game plan. I'm not calling for his job, but I think it's a fair criticism at this point. He, just as everyone needs to keep evolving himself and striving to learn and improve. The man can coach defense and has some nice leadership qualities, but we need to see growth out of him as a coach as well.
I know I've tried to find silver linings and I posted a defense of giving Lottich one more year... But after the turd this team just laid, I sincerely hope Javon Freeman is looking at transfer options. He deserves better than this organization. That was absolutely embarrassing.
Frankly I'll be shocked if we beat Evansville, and if I go to Arch Madness it won't be to watch this team. It's one thing to give 100% and get beat; it's another to play half-assed.
I would love to hear from some of the players. We wont and nor should the players publicly speak about the environment or whats happening behind closed doors. I'm sure MLB will have meetings with several of the players at the end of the season. I would love to be a fly on the wall during the meetings.
Quote from: NativeCheesehead on February 27, 2019, 10:29:04 PM
One or two decent shooters doesn't help you from getting blown out by a mediocre Bradley team.
If we just hit 9 out of 22 from the three (41%) we gain 21 points. I believe that would indeed help us from getting blown out.
I have to admit that for the first time in maybe 20 years, I now expect to see Valpo lose and that is not a fun feeling. The inept effort was appalling. The shooting? Um, if you could call it that, was just sad. The coaching? Well, Matt can't make shots for them but he brought these guys in, so there's that.
Here is a reality: The second time around this league has not worked out very well. Part of that are coaches adjusting and learning and teaching, while we seem unable to do the same.
Painfully, the season will be over in two more games. Anybody suggesting that we have the talent to win is just kidding themselves. Sad, just sad.
I was not able to watch the game...
Were we at least getting open shots? Or was Bradley locking us down?
Quote from: SanityLost17 on February 28, 2019, 08:10:17 AMI was not able to watch the game... Were we at least getting open shots? Or was Bradley locking us down?
We had a decent amount of open shots. They just didn't go in.
Quote from: VUBBFan on February 28, 2019, 09:32:30 AM
Quote from: SanityLost17 on February 28, 2019, 08:10:17 AMI was not able to watch the game... Were we at least getting open shots? Or was Bradley locking us down?
We had a decent amount of open shots. They just didn't go in.
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You could say that! 2-22 from the 3 and 26.8% overall. Golder started and went 1 for 7 for 2 points, Bakari 1 for 9 (if he shoots one more floater in the lane I'm going to vomit) and Mileek, 1-7 for 2 points (in 7 minutes)!
So other than Jay, our starters last night are now shooting 28.1, 31.6, 26.5 and 23.8 from the 3. We won't win any games with numbers like that.
Totally useless counterpoint. Just saw on Twitter (cuz I'm following Bucknell a little, because, you know, the football link) the Bison recently hit 21 threes in defeating Laffayette. A new school record.
Just checked the box score looking for something, anything to call a sliver lining. I found one thing: We out rebounded the Braves 36 -35 and, to my surprise, took down 13 ORBs to their 5. That's atypical for this team. We hardly ever go to the offensive boards.
Open Looks Created By The Offensive Game Plan (or lack thereof) + Player Skill/Development = Shooting Percentages....I'm not on the fire Lottich wagon yet but he is solely responsible for our inability to score the basketball...not a rough shooting night or injuries.
20 missed threes probably had a few long rebounds kick out to Valpo I'd imagine.
Quote from: VULB#62 on February 28, 2019, 10:58:52 AM
Just checked the box score looking for something, anything to call a sliver lining. I found one thing: We out rebounded the Braves 36 -35 and, to my surprise, took down 13 ORBs to their 5. That's atypical for this team. We hardly ever go to the offensive boards.
I wish that we wouldn't have had so many opportunities for offensive rebounds!
I'm glad I went to see the good Valpo team play last night, and paid little attention to the VU-Bradley "game."
I remember reading that during the off-season Steph Curry shoots every day until he MAKES 500 baskets and 200 baskets during the season. In the summer between HS and college he elevated his release point from his chest to above his head so he could shoot over bigger people. He said for the first week and a half, he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, but he refused to give up on it, and eventually things started to click.
If someone were to do a Pareto on every returning player to identify their biggest deficiencies, shooting would run the gamut. The bottom line - shutdown this season ASAP and begin an off-season shooting development program, complete with daily requirements, personal goals, tracking for accountability, etc. Buy as many of those rebounding machines as necessary to stop wasting time retrieving balls. Carry this forward for the next 6 months with all due diligence.
This is my rambling old fan rant. I would hope people on this board would critique about specific things the team is doing wrong on O or D. Break it down with analytics and play analysis. We are bordering on becoming hyper-critical of specific people. This isn't talk radio. These are college students and coaches. They are at least to my trained eye still working, hustling and coaching hard. Trying to nitpick their body language and fit your narratives and agendas (the fire Matt crowd) does not help. As someone on here once said, Mums, Dads, relatives, recruits and the players see this stuff. We, including the team, are frustrated by this season. It has been a roller coaster and the precipitous fall has clearly made my stomach rumble, but would suggest we take some deep breaths. Notwithstanding, here are some specific thoughts:
Not sure what offensive set you all think is going to fix players who can't shoot. The warning bells on our offensive ineptitude were rung last year, and I said it a few times on this board early in the year. This is the team that can't shoot straight. If you can't hit an open look 3 (and there were plenty last night), teams will sag the lane and you will have no inside game available, no backdoors, no layups, no driving the lane without 3-4 players there to collapse on you. Then what, kick it to an open Bakari, Kiser, Golder for the missed 3?[insert 3 shooting %s].
Ok, feed the post, and watch the double team collapse on Smits and Jay. Amazing Smits had 12. Jay had open looks. He really needs to work on the 3 Cs (Catch, Collect, Convert) and continuing to build strength like Vashil did so you go up through defenders and dunk. But, when they double, then what? Kick to an open Bakari, Sackey, Golder, Lavender? See previous stats. It's amazing how we have no pure shooters. Skara and Burton would have helped. It is clear that the injuries to Bakari and Golder are dramatically affecting their shooting. Golder had one move last night that showed the old Golder, reverse layup. But, his corner 3s had no legs in them. Appreciate his willingness to go back in. When he left, the air was taken out of the team. Then we are relying on Kiser, who wasn't even lined u, shoulders square to the basket to take 2 of his 3s.
The only thing that occasionally works is a 15 ft J from Freeman and Lavender, but per today's analytic focused game those are bad shots. Bradley did what we have seen second half of season once Fazekas and Golder were essentially done, clog the lane and make us hit shots. Go back before the start of the conference season and we were saying the same thing. The difference is in the first four conference wins, Fazekas found his stroke (and having watched him in practice he can shoot), Smits was then in more man-to-man situations and could score, or if they doubled, then he could kick and defenders were then scrambling, the extra pass could be made and boom the offense looked a whole lot better. Ask yourself, instead of constant ripping of Matt, what changed? Fazekas, Golder, Smits, Bakari (apparently all season hampered), Micah (all season), Fazekas again, Golder again (re-aggravated ankle last night). Add to this, a thin roster with 2 transfer redshirts, and 2 guys out injured and there are no more answers down the bench.
Matt should be commended that this team is still playing hard nosed defense. It's frustrating for all, but I feel for this coaching staff. When Matt has to run scout team, we are out of answers. When Matt's on the court, he's probably the best shooter, too. These guys have not quit and have grit. They have not spit the bit. That should tell you what kind of players they are and what type of coaches we have.
Also, guys need to learn how to be better when we have an occasional steal and break. They are rebounding better, and Kiser was everywhere last night, but if we are relying on him for 35 mins, we are in trouble. And as Mrs. Valpo84 said last night during the game, "hard to win when you can't score 50, and it seems like they haven't hit 50 for a few games." If Matt doesn't go find 2 guys who can hit some 3s at 40% clip, then I'm probably resigned that he can't recruit to win in this league. Next year, it's all his team and players. I've been through the worst and leanest years. But. at least when we had losing records in the early 90s, those teams were fun -- Casey, Lance, David, Tracy, Rob could flat out shoot the ball. What's most frustrating is we probably were on our way to the season we thought we should have until the injuries started and continued. That has nothing to do with coaching.
In the end, it's college basketball so we should all take a deep yoga cleansing breath and wait til next year. Then again, maybe we should skip STL, Kris Bryant says it's so boring anyway (probably because it's filled with Lutherans) 8-) . I found this clip of some of the folks on the board, at least they'd have a close parking spot....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAZU6DYwTDM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAZU6DYwTDM)
Quote from: valpo84 on February 28, 2019, 01:35:50 PMThese guys have not quit and have grit. They have not spit the bit. That should tell you what kind of players they are and what type of coaches we have.
I'll have some of whatever you're smoking.
Quote from: wh on February 28, 2019, 01:10:36 PMI remember reading that during the off-season Steph Curry shoots every day until he MAKES 500 baskets and 200 baskets during the season. In the summer between HS and college he elevated his release point from his chest to above his head so he could shoot over bigger people. He said for the first week and a half, he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, but he refused to give up on it, and eventually things started to click.
Sackey will never reach his full potential without learning the 3 point shot. Wide open he is bad, loosely guarded he is hideous, and tightly covered he will not connect for 1 in 20. Freeman can make vast improvements also. We have 3 more years to cultivate and harvest their talents so lets get started with something.
Quote from: wh on February 28, 2019, 01:10:36 PM
I remember reading that during the off-season Steph Curry shoots every day until he MAKES 500 baskets and 200 baskets during the season. In the summer between HS and college he elevated his release point from his chest to above his head so he could shoot over bigger people. He said for the first week and a half, he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, but he refused to give up on it, and eventually things started to click.
If someone were to do a Pareto on every returning player to identify their biggest deficiencies, shooting would run the gamut. The bottom line - shutdown this season ASAP and begin an off-season shooting development program, complete with daily requirements, personal goals, tracking for accountability, etc. Buy as many of those rebounding machines as necessary to stop wasting time retrieving balls. Carry this forward for the next 6 months with all due diligence.
Important to that is proper shooting mechanics. If you shoot 200 balls but with faulty mechanics it's not very productive — maybe even reinforcing bad habits. There are experts out there who specialize in shooting mechanics. Back in the day in Valpo there was such an expert (but it was mainly free throws, I believe), Virgil Sweet. Heck, Tom Brady, a surefire HOFer, always goes back to his private throwing coach to fine tune his mechanics every off season (and sometimes mid-season when he suspects something amiss). Apparently, there is no shooting expert currently on staff. Makes sense to bring one in and retain his services.
Thanks for the patience and the precision in your comments, Valpo84. I had wanted to speak up for Matt, but I would not have said it as eloquently.
The negativity on the coach and some of the players has gone over the top. The fast start raised our expectations when we saw the ceiling this team had. But late games exposed a lot of the holes.
As I ask so often, is the glass half empty or half full? I think we definitely dropped in our play in the last 10 games, but you can't deny the big wins on the road vs. MoState, Illinois State, and So. Illinois and the impressive game vs. Loyola. All of the teams (except maybe Drake) have been blown out by 15 points or more on some nights.....Loyola twice did that.
Why do so many people keep calling the Loyola game impressive. We lost. That's not impressive and that game broke our backs this year. We weren't the same after that one. No one should think that close losses are impressive. That debate was settled once and for all in 15-16 when our narrow loss to #1 seed Oregon gave us no help towards an at large bid. Close losses mean nothing and don't get you anywhere.
Interesting take on the Loyola ESPNU loss at home. I do agree they don't earn you anything in terms of achievement. But I did see good ball movement against a sticky defense.
You would think that loss could have turned us sour. But they went on the road and beat Illinois State soundly after that game. However, that did prove to be a big exception to our overall performance after that Loyola game. Who knows?
1314
Agree. I refuse to believe that we're such a joke of a program that we chalk up a loss to Loyola as a positive indication of growth/performance. Especially when they've lost 6 conference games, 12 total games, and are 5-6 on the road lol. Give me a break.
Talk about production! Against Bradley, our 2 7-footers, combined, played a total of 39 minutes and had 4 rebounds and 14 points. Wow! Then I wonder where we stand in all of Div 1 B-ball regarding 3-point shooting....attempts, made, and %-age. Let's hope we got it all out of our system in Peoria.
Quote from: valpo64 on March 01, 2019, 11:42:21 AMTalk about production! Against Bradley, our 2 7-footers, combined, played a total of 39 minutes and had 4 rebounds and 14 points. Wow! Then I wonder where we stand in all of Div 1 B-ball regarding 3-point shooting....attempts, made, and %-age. Let's hope we got it all out of our system in Peoria.
297(tied) of 353 in 3pt FG%
333(tied) of 353 in 3pt attempts per game.
So we're not good at making 'em and we don't take 'em.
Quote from: JD24 on March 01, 2019, 05:11:05 PM
Quote from: valpo64 on March 01, 2019, 11:42:21 AMTalk about production! Against Bradley, our 2 7-footers, combined, played a total of 39 minutes and had 4 rebounds and 14 points. Wow! Then I wonder where we stand in all of Div 1 B-ball regarding 3-point shooting....attempts, made, and %-age. Let's hope we got it all out of our system in Peoria.
297(tied) of 353 in 3pt FG%
333(tied) of 353 in 3pt attempts per game.
So we're not good at making 'em and we don't take 'em.
Those are jaw dropping stats.
I remember Coach Lottich being quoted last year saying he'd like our offense to be like Loyola's but we don't have the personel to be them. We have nice pieces that can play roles but we don't have many well rounded players. There are a few glaring holes in many of our players games. Ex: Golder. Excellent piece of a team being a spark playing off the bench but not a guy who could probably be the guy who can carry a team for an extended stretch of games. Good defender, athletic, (was)a strong 3 point shooter, good FT shooter, but the glaring hole in his game is that doesn't handle the ball well and overcommits to driving to the lane when he should really kick it back out when nothing is there.
We need more versatility in future rosters and more guys that can handle and take care of the ball. I think this will be addressed with future rosters. Love our freshman class and the two transfers redshirting this year because there is some versatility there with Robinson and I've heard good things about Gordon. It also appears that Clay Donovan isn't a one dimensional player either.
Those numbers are appalling. Idk what to say. Great job pulling that together. Wow. Still in shock. Bottom of the barrel for sure.
Those 3pt stats are crazy. Valpo was a program that always had good shooters so this makes it more difficult to accept.
Is it fair to say that basketball has gotten away from big centers with the back to the rim and more a 3 point game?
We are doing the opposite.
Quote from: oklahomamick on March 02, 2019, 08:53:29 AMThose 3pt stats are crazy. Valpo was a program that always had good shooters so this makes it more difficult to accept. Is it fair to say that basketball has gotten away from big centers with the back to the rim and more a 3 point game? We are doing the opposite.
More than fair. Look at the Warriors last year's Rockets and this year's Bucks. It's finding its way into the college game too.
Quote from: VUGrad1314 on March 02, 2019, 09:07:16 AMQuote from: oklahomamick on March 02, 2019, 08:53:29 AMThose 3pt stats are crazy. Valpo was a program that always had good shooters so this makes it more difficult to accept. Is it fair to say that basketball has gotten away from big centers with the back to the rim and more a 3 point game? We are doing the opposite.
More than fair. Look at the Warriors last year's Rockets and this year's Bucks. It's finding its way into the college game too.
Finding its way? It's been part of the college game for at least as long as in the pros. In fact, one of the reasons the pro game has changed as much as it has is because the colleges don't send post up centers to the pros. A lot of it came from the international game.
For Valpo, the problem is that they don't have any identity on offense. They don't have the shooters (at least this season) to run a 5 out type of offense. Their post up game has one decent option in Smits who is clumsy with the ball and not quick in the passing game (something he did not inherit from his dad) and they don't have enough iso skills amongst their players to run much of anything else. Sorolla I find a nearly complete waste of time combined with the rest of the roster. The result? To me it is too much standing around.
Too much standing yes,
I think we are better 3pt shooters than what the stats say.....if we had an offense that gave us open looks.
Previously a lot of our best 3 point shooter caught the pass was set and shot. A lot of designed plays too.
Wanting to play a certain way but not having the right personnel...sounds like Fred Hoiberg
Now that I think about it Brook Lopez is exhibit A of this transition. He came into the league as predominantly a low post scorer with some midrange face up chops. Now that he's in Milwaukee Budenholzer's five out offense has him shooting a respectable 36% on super high volume (6.5\game) this means he hits about 2.5 triples a game which is great for a seven footer.
Next year will be the 3rd consecutive season Valpo has "centered" its offense around 2 7-footers. One has no effective post moves and can't hit a 4' turnaround with any consistency. The other refuses to play defense. If I never see another 7-footer in my lifetime, it'll be a day too soon.
Quote from: wh on March 02, 2019, 10:13:51 AM
Next year will be the 3rd consecutive season Valpo has "centered" its offense around 2 7-footers. One has no effective post moves and can't hit a 4' turnaround with any consistency. The other refuses to play defense. If I never see another 7-footer in my lifetime, it'll be a day too soon.
:rotfl:
We get your point but imagine the 18-19 Smits centering the 16-17 team. Walker, Joseph, Hammink, Peters, Williams and Adekoya would have been your outlet passing targets. Would anybody double down on Derrik?
Quote from: justducky on March 02, 2019, 11:14:56 AM
Quote from: wh on March 02, 2019, 10:13:51 AM
Next year will be the 3rd consecutive season Valpo has "centered" its offense around 2 7-footers. One has no effective post moves and can't hit a 4' turnaround with any consistency. The other refuses to play defense. If I never see another 7-footer in my lifetime, it'll be a day too soon.
:rotfl:
We get your point but imagine the 18-19 Smits centering the 16-17 team. Walker, Joseph, Hammink, Peters, Williams and Adekoya would have been your outlet passing targets. Would anybody double down on Derrik?
I took BB101, too, so I do understand the value of parking a large individual underneath the basket, especially if he's surrounded by 4 average to great 3-point shooters. In fact, his multiple defensive deficiencies would likely be less noticeable with double digit rebounders Alec and Jubril playing lockdown defense and swarming the boards on every possession. I'll even bet he would play with more energy and intensity after his older teammates "encouraged" in private. But, who knows, maybe we'll have that utopian situation next year?