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Sorry, I couldn't help myself.  I had to cringe during the UIC/NKU game because they were talking about the league and mispronounced your name then as well.  At least you got some response and it sounds like the issue will be remedied.

So maybe you feel a little of our pain over at UIC.  Slightly different issue, but the same root cause...people not taking 5 minutes to figure out how to refer to the schools and players they're going to be talking about for the next 2 hours.  Within the league especially, it drives me crazy.

"It's Valpa-f&@$ing-ray-so you hack!"

ValporAso, ValporIso...

Lighten up Francis...

This is simply a matter of branding and respect for a fellow conference member.

See page 84 of the HL style guide.  UIC wants to be referred to as "UIC", and "Illinois-Chicago" is an unacceptable reference according to UIC administration.

http://www.horizonleague.org/pdf/2013-14-MBB-Media-Guide.pdf

We're not even technically a hyphen school...we're an "at" school.  Semantics, sure.  But Milwaukee and Green Bay are officially hyphen schools and I see people follow their branding wishes ("Milwaukee" and "Green Bay") more than UIC's are followed.  You don't call UCLA "California-Los Angeles"...you don't call Illinois "Illinois-Urbana-Champaign".

Obviously there are fans at these schools that make a stink about this because there is a stigma associated with hyphenated schools...that we're second class...the branding desires are there for a reason.

I think fans in this conference should know how each team is to be referred to.  That's all.  You would want your wishes followed too.  According to this guide, your admins don't want you referred to as "VU"...would you be annoyed if on selection Sunday you're name appeared in the bracket as VU instead of Valpo or Valparaiso?  Honest question.

How long have you been in this conference?  Surely, it's been long enough to know we're not "Illinois-Chicago".

I'll say Valpo by 8.  But this will be the last year you sweep us for a while.  Enjoy it now 😉

...its us and Detroit. So we went from having about half the league with solid academic stature to twenty percent.

I find this comment interesting.  What do you base it on?  Other than your obvious bias towards private schools?

So I'm on Verbal Commits and I looked at UIC's page, http://www.verbalcommits.com/schools/illinois-chicago, had to laugh at their open offers with their spots available.

Why?

The # of spots available now may not be the # of spots available a year from now.  Besides, hard to argue McClain's recruiting strategy when he's brought in the best HL class two years in a row.

The bash was by valporun who said that UIC is a hard sell because of location and academics...unless he meant that as a compliment referring to our higher academic standards.  When I questioned that, you came on and said my academic question had an obvious answer...and I still disagree.  UIC has a very good engineering program and a very good medical program, including pharmacy, nursing, etc.  Many other programs are nationally competitive and, btw, research from about a decade ago showed that UIC was the only "name" school in IL to not have suffered from tremendous grade inflation...people work hard for their grades at UIC...the academics are tough.  We don't just put people on the honor roll like other schools.  The average grade at UIC is a C...as it should be.  Also, usnews rankings take into account grad rates, alumni giving rates, and other things that favor non-commuter, private schools.  They place in the rankings itself doesn't tell the whole story.

Valpo and UIC are different types of schools...you can't say that Valpo has a better reputation, and I can't say the opposite (note that I never did in that previous conversation...I simply asked which HL school has a better reputation and also for someone to back it up).  What is Valpo so well known for?  Someone else mentioned that phd/research schools aren't necessarily good academic schools...but nobody can deny the value of teaching someone research...everyone has benefitted from big time research, whether it be medical, technogical, or whatever.

And I will say that private schools think they're better simply because they're smaller and private...and that's not always the case...

Valpo is a tiny school....it isn't a surprise that your average ACT is higher...public and private schools are different...apples and oranges.  Take UIC's top 4500 students (which is the population at Valpo)....I bet they blow Valpo's out of the water in terms of test scores.

For instance, this is SAT-related (can't find similar ACT stuff), but it kind of illustrates the point...

http://collegeapps.about.com/od/sat/a/horizon-league-sat-scores.htm

Heck, it seems that the average student at UIC is better at math and writing (and in some cases reading) than Valpo's average student...better test scores...so that makes UIC a better school?

I'm not gonna sit here and say that Valpo has bad academics...I just don't know...my point is it's very difficult to criticize UIC academics....you're gonna have to bring something better than ACT score comparison between a public/private.

Don't say UIC is a hard sell because of academics with nothing to back it up....just because you believe it doesn't make it reality.

"I won't even touch the academic question, as it is pretty obvious..."
It certainly isn't....which is why I want someone to explain it to me....

UIC is also a hard sell to some parents because of location of the school, the academics, and in some ways, wanting to get their sons out of the area, and exposed to places they could never easily take them to.

What is wrong with UIC academics?  What school in the HL is better that UIC academically?...and use numbers to support your position please.


UIC may be a hard sell, but that's a BS excuse...our leadership has been   for the past decade.  Coach Moore isn't getting the job done and that's the end of it...100+ losses over 5 seasons?  If coaches can get players to play in Youngstown, Cleveland, Detroit, and any other HL town, and have way more success than UIC, than why is it so out of reach for us..in the best city in the HL?  I have had enough....seriously...there better be changes after this season.  Moore got a completely unwarranted extension....the result of our leaders thinking success is a .500 season and a trip to the CIT. 


Congrats on your win today.


Btw, your board would be dead if you went through what we've gone through over the last 10+ years.

They could have had better basketball now with UIC...

Lol

What's so funny?  Obviously I was comparing UIC to Loyola.  I didn't say we had good basketball.  I'm the first to admit we've had absolute sh!t basketball.  But we've been better than Loyola.  If you think otherwise, I'd love for you to break it down for me.

Can someone explain to me why the conference needs a public/private balance and why Valpo needs to be with "like-minded" schools with "similar priorities"?

What is the obsession with private schools sticking together?  You're like a bunch of girls that can't go to the bathroom by themselves without company.

This wanting to achieve balance thing is just not making sense to me, especially when you're willing to compromise the strength of the conference.  The MVC no doubt weakened itself to get the private school they wanted.  They could have had good baseball NOW with UIC, and better basketball now with UIC, and better facilities NOW with UIC.  But it had to be private.

How exactly is being one of two private schools in the HL hurting you?  You're funding is near the top of the league.  You're winning championships.  Quit crying and go to the bathroom by yourself, dammit!

Uh....it might have helped that we had about 6-7 FT attempts in the last 15 seconds or so because you guys were trying to catch up.  Without you trying to play catch up, the fouls and FT attempts would be much closer.  Simple fact is that Crittle drops his shoulder into the defender every time, which is not a block if the defender maintains his position.  The defender has just as much right to their space as he does trying to bully his way inside.  His elbows and shoulders were ridiculous.

Right, but even take those 6-7 FTs off....even if you take 12 FTs off, it's still hard to say UIC got home-cooking...come on.  For UIC to get home-cooking, you'd have to see a clear bias in officiating, and that wasn't even close to being the case.  Crittle is a beast down low....big, physical player.  There have been games this year where he's been whistled for the offensive.  Last night, they let the guys play...on both ends.  And it probably didn't help your cause when your big men were clearly flopping....you're not going to get the benefit of calls when you establish that you're pretending to get fouled.

don't mean to sound objective, because I'm not.  I did see a couple of plays where Valpo might have gotten away with something.  There were several very questionable calls that went against Valpo, and because it was a tight game I felt like the refs were going to hand you the win.  It was an emotional outburst.  I don't *really* believe that ever happens.


Then again, comparing fouls is not the best measurement for referee neutrality.  It ignores the possibility that one side simply fouled more.  I thought at least 2 of KVW's fouls were highly questionable, and there were a couple of other calls/non-calls that had me seething.

stlvufan, couldn't any fan of either team say that?  That there were questionable calls on both ends?...seriously, there were a number of calls I thought UIC got screwed out of as well.  Every game there are mind-blowing calls for both sides.  Doesn't mean home-cooking.  I mean it's bad enough we get beat at home by you guys, but you don't need to make it worse by saying the only way we even stayed close was because of officiating help...that's just a slap in the face.  I would argue that UIC has the least home court advantage of any team in the HL....many opposing fans find their way to the Pavilion, and we have hardly gotten any of the typical home cooking that other teams seem to get around the conference when we play them on the road.  Maybe we should visit this again when we play at Valpo...and we'll compare officiating then.

The biggest reason why I loved this game is because we won ... playing 5 on 8.  Pissing all over home cooking is a huge rush.

Honestly, were we watching the same game?  30 to 18 FT shots...Valpo's favor...16 personal fouls to UIC's 22.  How exactly was this home cooking?  Would've been worse had the refs actually bought some of the flops your big men had against Crittle.

You guys stepped up and made clutch shots down the stretch...hats off to you.  You deserved the win.  But to say this was 5 vs 8 makes you look like you have no idea what you're talking about.

Btw, as far as the stream, I don't think it was just a UIC issue tonight....Green Bay apparently had struggles as well.  I heard one of the UIC announcers say they just started using the HD equipment, so that may have sucked up too much HL bandwidth.  In any case, you could've selected a lower quality...medium ran fine for me most of the time....however, near the end I had to switch to low and it was almost unwatchable.  The audio has been horrendous at UIC for years....have to agree with you on that one.

There are about 180 engineering programs in the undergraduate group (MS terminal) and 150 in the doctorate group.  Both have a small pct. of outstanding programs all the way down to some real slugs and everything between - really no different than any other degree program.  The fact that one group offers a doctorate does not in and of itself make that group superior.  It also does not mean that their BS degrees are superior just because they happen to also offer a doctorate in that degree program.  Case in point - Chicago State.  They offer doctorate programs.  In their case it simply represents one more level of educational mediocrity.  The bottom line is if the two decks were merged, Valpo's very highly regarded Engineering program would still be a frontrunner when comparing undergraduate programs (apples to apples).  Yes, they would be behind MIT and some other best-of-the-best Engineering schools in the other group, but they would definitely be ahead of the majority of average and below average programs in that group - especially when compared to a lot of secondary state schools with the usual array of average programs and lower admission standards.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch.  It appears that neither of the 2 other reported front runners - Boston College and Illinois State - has an Engineering program.  ISU offers Engrg. Tech., which is a lower level general engrg. degree.

If Boston College and ISU are the front-runners and don't have engineering, then you are certainly correct in saying Valpo would be ahead of them.  My problem with vu72's statement is that saying Valpo is #17 in the nation is misleading.  It's only #17 among non-doctorate schools.  It's not #17 overall.  You can't even say that Valpo would definitely be ahead of a majority of average programs.  How do you know?  Sure, you'd be above a school like Chicago State, but there is no way to tell where Valpo would fit in overall if you merged the lists.  And, you can't really merge them because it is apples and oranges...this is the whole reason for two lists.  The doctorate schools, on average, have more resources at their disposal and, therefore, attract big-time researchers/professors, and this funnels down to the students in terms of advanced research opportunities, advanced graduate level courses (which may be taken by undergrads), and so on.  The non-doctorate schools simply don't offer the same opportunities to the same degree.  And I'm not saying there are no advantages to attending a non-doctorate engineering program like Valpo's...I'm sure there are things you get there (smaller class size, more personal attention, etc.) that you can't get at a school like MIT, or even UIC.

My understanding is that he wants to study engineering. Valpo's undergrad engineering college is ranked 17th in the nation by US News.  The other candidates don't matchup in this regard.

Valpo is ranked 17th among schools that don't offer a doctorate in engineering.  Who knows where you'd place on the list of all schools...but my guess is much, much lower.  Not trying to bash your program; I'm sure it's great.  But, I think it's unfair to say nobody else matches up with you.  You're comparing apples and oranges.

Thanks for interjecting something into which you know very little. First off, I presume Alec will be seeking an UNDERGRADUATE degree so your "don't offer a doctorate" doesn't make any sense at all.  Next I'll simply say that if you look at Valpo's engineering site, you will see reference to a solar furnace. It will allow Valpo UNDERGRADS to do research at a level unheard of at almost any engineering program.  Valpo is the ONLY undergraduate institution with such a device.  MIT has been to Valpo to see what is going on.  How do you like them "apples"??

And for the record, I should have said that Valpo's engineering program was superior to the front runners.  I'm sure Rice's program is terrific as well, but I doubt
Alec is leaning toward the Owls.

You may want to think twice before accusing somebody of knowing very little when a quick search at US News proves that you're the one that knows very little.  My logic makes perfect sense.  US News ranks engineering schools separately....there are those that offer doctorate degrees and those that don't.  However, for each group, the undergraduate program is ranked.  For instance, MIT is ranked as having the #1 undergrad engineering program amongst schools that offer doctorates.  Immediately, this would drop you to #18 (if you think your program is better than MIT's, you're off your rocker)...then drop Valpo much further when you bring in Stanford, CIT, Berkeley, UIUC, Michigan, etc.

So, someone like Peters should not just look at the list Valpo is in.  If you were a counselor advising him to discount MIT for Valpo, I'd fire you in a heartbeat.

I don't have access to the full set of rankings, nor do I know who the front runners for Peters are, but I am curious why you think you're ahead of the front runners.  What we have here is homerism at its finest.  You point to one example of a solar furnace?  I can guarantee you that MIT and most of the other schools on the doctorate list are doing many things that Valpo couldn't even think about doing (and in a wide variety of areas).  You simply can't compete with the resources (both amount of teachers/researchers and money) that these big doctorate schools funnel into cutting-edge research and education.

My understanding is that he wants to study engineering. Valpo's undergrad engineering college is ranked 17th in the nation by US News.  The other candidates don't matchup in this regard.

Valpo is ranked 17th among schools that don't offer a doctorate in engineering.  Who knows where you'd place on the list of all schools...but my guess is much, much lower.  Not trying to bash your program; I'm sure it's great.  But, I think it's unfair to say nobody else matches up with you.  You're comparing apples and oranges.