Coronavirus

[mj]

This discussion is a microcosm of what happens every day across the national political landscape. Dems intentionally slow-play the recovery in order to damage Trump's chances for re-election, then shame anyone who dares express that we need to get our economy back on track. What happens nationally and what happened to you are identical in that both are consistent with a long established, deeply ingrained anarchical tactic:

"Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it."
Rules for Radicals, Rule No. 13
By Saul D. Alinsky, Anarchist

This tactic is part of a larger counter cultural theme recently parroted by Hilary Clinton called "Never let a crisis go to waste". It's political sleaze perpetrated by the left, nothing more. Pay no attention to it.

So this is nonsense. Governor Hogan in Maryland and Governor DeWine in Ohio contradict your conspiracy theory.

Are you denying this existence of the virus? It's dangerousness? The fact that's it's killed 70,000 Americans the last two months?

Why didn't Trump do anything the past two months to prevent Democrats from "slow-playing" the recovery? He could have taken steps, like testing and tracing, that would have convinced folks that they could be safe. But he didn't do any of that.

Instead the plan is to do nothing and just sacrifice people to Mammon. He all but admitted that this morning.

But yes, tell us more how this is all just a plot to hurt Trump.

[vu84v2]

Here is a plan that is linked to a strategy:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/openingamerica/

You could quibble with some minor details, but it makes sense and makes reasonable attempts to balance health and economic issues.

The problem is that you have a President who immediately refutes the plan that his administration wrote (Liberate _____!) and states that don't follow those guidelines. Lack of any degree of leadership leads to a far worse situation economically and healthwise.

[JD24]

The President had a golden opportunity to wrap up the Nov. election with more decisive "leadership" at the beginning the the crisis which continues to this day. Define "leadership" however you wish but had he stood up in front of the country and explained that the country had a problem which needed to be addressed immediately he'd certainly be in better standing with some today than he is other than those prone to follow his every word.

Instead, by downplaying the problem, he allowed for doubt to creep in to the message which those who follow him are more prone to believe to this day. In some form of "this isn't that big of a deal". He continues this currently with many mixed messages, seeming to go against what he's being advised to do, recommending or even mentioning medical treatments which have either not been fully vetted, proven to some degree to be ineffective or downright nuts to even suggest. All this does is bolster what his followers believe and galvanize those who think he's incompetent.

While he's clearly completely consumed by the Nov election, he's probably miscalculated in how he could have sewn it up and now is likely in a dogfight at best.

[wh]

Well, I see I'm unable to win everyone over on that topic, so let's try something different. I was in the checkout line last night at Stracks behind a young 30-ish couple who had their little masks perfectly in place.  As the checker was ringing up their purchases, she asked if they would like to "round up" for Meals on Wheels. The guy replied with an emphatic "No!" - said with a somewhat dismissive/disgusted tone. I immediately thought to myself - self-absorbed, millennial Democrats.

Group question: What are the odds I was right? 9:1? 10:0? 

Note: If you detour onto the road of sanctimony, please answer the question before you end your journey.

[vu84v2]

JD24 - All good points. In fact, I agree that he had a golden opportunity to sew up the election by handling this as an effective executive. Your points on mixed and inappropriate messaging are absolutely right. I would add that, in terms of executive leadership, he fails miserably in projecting specific detailed progress on key issues. Any senior executive knows that you don't just say "we're doing a great job" and "we have lots of ______". You say, here is the situation and we need this amount of something over this period of time. Then, you say we are not there yet...we only have X% of what is needed. Next, you say here is our plan over time to eliminate the gap. Then, every update reviews progress on that plan. As the senior most executive, he shouldn't review the granular details - but all comments should be directly tied to that plan.

The big issue now is testing and tracing. Short of a vaccine, they are essential to getting the economy (and definitely universities) going in a meaningful way. The federal, state and local governments can say whatever they want - but will people go back with so much uncertainty? (of course, a few well - but not enough to revive businesses and the economy) Will parents allow their children to attend college in person if the university does not know the current spread of infection in and around the university and has no way of detecting and isolating cases quickly? Yet, despite how critical testing and tracing is to a meaningful reopening of the economy, there is no stated plan of what is needed  - let alone any plan or progress reviewed towards meeting what is needed. This is not a Federal issue, state issue, local issue, private organization issue...this is an everyone issue. Everyone will succeed or fail together.

[vu72]

a young 30-ish couple who had their little masks perfectly in place. 

Bigger question: Did you have your little mask on?

[78crusader]

The big issue now is testing and tracing.

Testing is helpful but it has significant limitations. You can test negative one day, and be positive the next.  What then?  You can't test everyone every day. Self-testing has limitations too.  Many people will not be willing to stick the swab far enough up their nose or far enough down their throat to get a reliable sample. 

The daily number of infections is becoming less of an indicator now of how rampant the virus is since more people are being tested now than, for instance, the beginning or middle of April. 

If by "testing" you are referring to antibody testing, then I think that is much more useful since it will provide a much clearer picture on how many people have been infected with the virus.  If, as several small sample antibody testing results have indicated, a significant percentage of the population has already been infected, then that will reduce the mortality rate, which in turn might impact state-and nationwide plans to reopen going forward.

Paul

[valpo95]

I've hesitated to weigh in on this topic, yet there are a few points that need to be emphasized.

1) On President Trump, the single worst thing he has done was to insert himself into the daily briefings. He should have let he public health experts be more prominent all the way through, which would have de-politicized a public health crisis. He could have attended those briefings, perhaps taking questions once a week, or limiting his comments to "We are looking closely at the data; it is a fluid and complex situation, and we all should follow the advice of our experts for the good of our country." Instead, short comments (be they tweets or offhand remarks after a briefing) as President Trump processes information or news have not served him or the public especially well.

2) Several other politicians, such as Mayor de Blasio, Governor Cuomo and Joe Biden have made foolish and irresponsible statements. For example, on March 2, de Blasio tweeted, "to go on with your lives + get out on the town despite Coronavirus" and on March 11, he was, "telling people to not avoid restaurants, not avoid normal things that people do. ... If you're not sick, you should be going about your life." Those tweets are not going to age well. Similarly, Candidate Biden on January 31 and in a similar tweet on Feb 1 criticized President Trump for closing down direct flights to Wuhan, referring to Trump's  "...record of hysteria xenophobia, hysterical xenophobia, and fear-mongering to lead the way instead of science." Of course, it is difficult to pin down exactly what Mr. Biden meant, but in context, many people (including the WHO) were critical of travel restrictions.

3) More important to our future, we have to get out of an either/or mentality. We have seen governors foolishly require roping-off the garden section of a large retail store because it was not deemed life-sustaining in one state but acceptable by other states. However, buying vegetable seeds or not doing so did virtually nothing to stem the tide of infection. If the stores were open at all, the risk of a customer adding some seeds to his/her shopping basket is virtually zero.

Similarly, we should not be talking about open or closed states or open/closed economies. We have to be thinking about reasonable risks. For example, near where I work is a large construction site for a new biosciences building. When our state closed down, construction stopped for seven weeks and only returned on Monday. Yet look at these risks - these workers already were wearing long pants, boots, hardhats, gloves and safety glasses, and most of the work is outside. So adding masks and encouraging social distancing on the jobsite does allow work to progress. This doesn't mean zero risk - it is possible more people will be infected and some might die because construction re-started at that site. Yet it doesn't make sense to keep a site like that closed for months and hundreds of (thus far) reasonably healthy workers drawing unemployment for such a minuscule reduction in risk.

Will things return to normal? Yes, though there will be some differences in the interim - we will be wearing masks in public, and avoiding large gatherings for some time. We must balance reasonable risks with the need to move forward.

[mj]

Well, I see I'm unable to win everyone over on that topic, so let's try something different. I was in the checkout line last night at Stracks behind a young 30-ish couple who had their little masks perfectly in place.  As the checker was ringing up their purchases, she asked if they would like to "round up" for Meals on Wheels. The guy replied with an emphatic "No!" - said with a somewhat dismissive/disgusted tone. I immediately thought to myself - self-absorbed, millennial Democrats.

Well this is quite the non-sequitor.

Similarly, we should not be talking about open or closed states or open/closed economies. We have to be thinking about reasonable risks. For example, near where I work is a large construction site for a new biosciences building. When our state closed down, construction stopped for seven weeks and only returned on Monday. Yet look at these risks - these workers already were wearing long pants, boots, hardhats, gloves and safety glasses, and most of the work is outside. So adding masks and encouraging social distancing on the jobsite does allow work to progress. This doesn't mean zero risk - it is possible more people will be infected and some might die because construction re-started at that site. Yet it doesn't make sense to keep a site like that closed for months and hundreds of (thus far) reasonably healthy workers drawing unemployment for such a minuscule reduction in risk.

Yes, you begin to take reasonable risks when there are precautions in place. That hasn't happened. The federal government sat around for 8 weeks while people stayed at home. Now the plan appears to open everything back up and hope for the best.

[wh]

Dem state economies have been in shutdown mode for nearly 2 months now with no end in sight.  Unemployment in many areas is as high as 30% or more. Businesses are bleeding red. Many small businesses with short cash runways have already collapsed or are on the verge of collapse. Practically overnight we've added trillions of dollars to our national debt.

With this said, how much longer should the Dem slow players continue to lockdown their states?
• A week?
• Month?
• Year?
• Until we get a vaccine?
• After the presidential election?
• Until it affects me personally?
• Until we get more testing (recognizing that we don't yet have a clue as to how much more testing is realistic, how mass testing would work logistically, how long it would take, or what the benefit would be)?
• Or (my personal favorite), however long it takes to keep everyone safe?

[mj]

Again, your characterization of this as a partisan issue is incorrect. The governors of Ohio and Maryland are Republicans and those states are still under lockdown.

You assume that if a lockdown is lifted, the economy will suddenly spring back. But that's not going to happen until people are confident the virus is under control. And there's no amount of bluffing that can cause that to happen. Why? Because with over 70,000 dead, most Americans have been affected or know someone affected so they know how serious it is.

And we do know how testing and tracing could look. Other countries were able to get things under control. Yes, there will alway be an element of risk but there are ways to mitigate that risk.

That hasn't been done so now we're prepared to sacrifice the weak. I'm not ready to accept the pro-death position.

[valpopal]

Perhaps an indication of optimism or hope, Valparaiso University announces a schedule of six in-person campus Focus sessions between July 6 and July 17 for incoming students and their families: "At Valpo, personal interactions are extremely important to us, and we know students are ready to spend time with new friends in person. Our goal is to have FOCUS new student orientation in person, on campus, while exercising the necessary precautions to continue to limit the spread of COVID-19."

[vok22]

The lifting of the lockdown order does not mean it is any safer to go out today than it was a week ago, it simply means they have made room in the healthcare system to hospitalize you when you do get sick. A large percentage of the population is going to stay away from heavily used public spaces like restaurants for a long long time regardless of a lockdown being in place or not. And what is this exemption for churches on the half capacity rule? Restaurants and malls and the like must operate at half capacity, but churches do not. Is coronavirus allergic to churches? Does it not spread in between church walls?

Other countries (See Germany and Italy)completely shut down their whole country for a month and a half and are going to be returning to almost normal life soon, with probably the continued use of masks and gloves. They had to shut down businesses for that time period but they were able to survive for the most part AND they have absolutely thwarted the virus. The US on the other hand couldn't sit down and make a responsible decision, and instead decided to not really shut down but not really open up and so we are seeing a situation where we turned the curve from exponential to linear but aren't actually turning the curve around. We missed the opportunity to have a quicker, more strict, shutdown that would get less people sick and allow businesses to reopen soon. Instead, we have forced ourself into a situation where we aren't seeing a decrease in new cases AND we aren't getting any closer to being to reopen businesses safely, we are just dragging out the process. And now we are reopening when we aren't even at our peak. If we were going to do that, then why did we even shut down? It's just begging for cases to start growing exponentially again.

[wh]

After 3 1/2 years of failed fraudulent endeavors by morally bankrupt democrats to bring down the President of the United States, they may have received some hopeful news:

Trump valet tests positive for coronavirus

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-valet-tests-positive-for-coronavirus

[FWalum]

I know I am probably in the minority here, but with my wife being the head of a Life Sciences department and a daughter on the front-line in Washington DC, it is frustrating to not hear or see data in its proper context. I know that DC is worse than Indiana, but some of the stories we are hearing first hand are frightening. Complications from this virus are still very unknown and our daughter says very unlike any respiratory virus she has seen. Since I work with Indiana County Health Departments and their Vital Records software recording deaths, investigating the best prediction models has become a project for me so I thought I would do some sharing of data from May 6th. In my opinion Indiana has been pretty slow and low in its testing, especially here in Allen County. Until the drive through testing was opened here about 2 1/2 weeks ago Allen County was worst of the 20 most populous counties in the state. To put that in context, Marion county, at that time, was testing at a rate almost 8 times that of Allen County. To be totally transparent, that difference as decreased drastically to 2.65 as of May 6th, but Allen County, the states 3rd most populous county, still ranks 49th of the 92 counties in testing. Here is some data on how Indiana is doing according to the Harvard Global Health Institute.


So don't go up to the podium and tell us we are going to reopen because here is how many new cases and deaths we had today... give us some meaningful data that instill confidence in that decision.

For those of you who think this is no worse than the flu, our total deaths from flu in Indiana during the 18-19 season was 113. Yes, in the past decade we had a flu season where deaths where over 350. Here is the link to Indiana's influenza statistics. Indiana Influenza Reports Automobile deaths for 2018 were 858. Covid-19 deaths by early August now estimated at over 5,000. Yes, that many, imagine what the toll would have been if the schools, restaurants, concerts, sporting events and churches had not closed. Just look at the infection rate in the food processing plants here in Indiana if you want to know what could have happened.

Currently the most accurate prediction model for the US has been Youyang Gu model. Here is a link to their site Covid19-Projections.com

One of our family businesses (restaurants) has been hit very hard by the closures.  We will be able to reopen this coming Monday at 50% capacity. Other than "all employees must wear masks and employees and patrons must practice social distancing" we have not been given any real idea as to what those instructions mean. I have heard at least 10 different ideas as to what restaurants must do during this limited reopening. Our leaders aren't being decisive and when they are one side thinks it's bad and the other thinks it's good. Can the political bias please stop. Sorry for the ramble.

[FieldGoodie05]

I know I am probably in the minority here, but with my wife being the head of a Life Sciences department and a daughter on the front-line in Washington DC, it is frustrating to not hear or see data in its proper context. I know that DC is worse than Indiana, but some of the stories we are hearing first hand are frightening. Complications from this virus are still very unknown and our daughter says very unlike any respiratory virus she has seen. Since I work with Indiana County Health Departments and their Vital Records software recording deaths, investigating the best prediction models has become a project for me so I thought I would do some sharing of data from May 6th. In my opinion Indiana has been pretty slow and low in its testing, especially here in Allen County. Until the drive through testing was opened here about 2 1/2 weeks ago Allen County was worst of the 20 most populous counties in the state. To put that in context, Marion county, at that time, was testing at a rate almost 8 times that of Allen County. To be totally transparent, that difference as decreased drastically to 2.65 as of May 6th, but Allen County, the states 3rd most populous county, still ranks 49th of the 92 counties in testing. Here is some data on how Indiana is doing according to the Harvard Global Health Institute.


So don't go up to the podium and tell us we are going to reopen because here is how many new cases and deaths we had today... give us some meaningful data that instill confidence in that decision.

For those of you who think this is no worse than the flu, our total deaths from flu in Indiana during the 18-19 season was 113. Yes, in the past decade we had a flu season where deaths where over 350. Here is the link to Indiana's influenza statistics. Indiana Influenza Reports Automobile deaths for 2018 were 858. Covid-19 deaths by early August now estimated at over 5,000. Yes, that many, imagine what the toll would have been if the schools, restaurants, concerts, sporting events and churches had not closed. Just look at the infection rate in the food processing plants here in Indiana if you want to know what could have happened.

Currently the most accurate prediction model for the US has been Youyang Gu model. Here is a link to their site Covid19-Projections.com

One of our family businesses (restaurants) has been hit very hard by the closures.  We will be able to reopen this coming Monday at 50% capacity. Other than "all employees must wear masks and employees and patrons must practice social distancing" we have not been given any real idea as to what those instructions mean. I have heard at least 10 different ideas as to what restaurants must do during this limited reopening. Our leaders aren't being decisive and when they are one side thinks it's bad and the other thinks it's good. Can the political bias please stop. Sorry for the ramble.

Thanks for your real life input, it's invaluable in a time where most headlines are reporting on the craziest 1% of stories out there.  Keep us informed as you can please.  Because it's clear you have more real time examples than any of us could ask for in the embellishment of media today.

[vu84v2]

After 3 1/2 years of failed fraudulent endeavors by morally bankrupt democrats to bring down the President of the United States, they may have received some hopeful news:

Trump valet tests positive for coronavirus

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-valet-tests-positive-for-coronavirus

Someone who would rejoice in the illness or death on another person because they disagree with them is morally bankrupt. Which is exactly what you have stated in previous posts on this website. Therefore, by your argument you yourself must be morally bankrupt.

[wh]

After 3 1/2 years of failed fraudulent endeavors by morally bankrupt democrats to bring down the President of the United States, they may have received some hopeful news:

Trump valet tests positive for coronavirus

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-valet-tests-positive-for-coronavirus

Someone who would rejoice in the illness or death on another person because they disagree with them is morally bankrupt. Which is exactly what you have stated in previous posts on this website. Therefore, by your argument you yourself must be morally bankrupt.

I have to admit, that is a home run comeback. lol 

[Valpo2013]

Maybe if we just prayed more things would get better
Get the   outta here
If there were a God he's either inept or evil

[wh]

Maybe if we just prayed more things would get better
Get the  outta here
If there were a God he's either inept or evil

Read Psalm 14:1

[Valpo2013]

Maybe if we just prayed more things would get better
Get the  outta here
If there were a God he's either inept or evil

Read Psalm 14:1

Thanks but I've got enough fictional books to read for now...

[vu72]

Maybe if we just prayed more things would get better
Get the  outta here
If there were a God he's either inept or evil

Read Psalm 14:1

Thanks but I've got enough fictional books to read for now...

Wow!  Our resident atheist!  I suppose on the Valpo board there had to be one.  Sad though.

[valpo04]

Maybe if we just prayed more things would get better
Get the  outta here
If there were a God he's either inept or evil

Read Psalm 14:1

Thanks but I've got enough fictional books to read for now...

This is unnecessarily antagonist towards fellow members of the Valpo family. Let's be nice.

Thanks.

[wh]

NCAA president says no fall sports unless campuses are open to all students: 'It's really that simple'

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ncaa-president-fall-sports-return

Somewhere along the northeastern seaboard liberal hog trough, some haughty, morally narcissistic, pseudo intellectual, European anarchist descendant, college president will seize her 15 minute moment and announce to the world that she cannot in all good conscience reopen campus to all students until either there are no more reported cases of COVID-19 anywhere in the world, or a vaccine is found and proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, whichever comes last. When asked whether she is aware that her decision means the cancellation of all fall college sports in the United States, she will reply that in fact she was not, but even had she known, her decision would have remained the same. "Is selfishly indulging in a child's game worth the sacrifice of human lives? I think not!"

[wh]

Georgia reports lowest number of COVID patients in a month

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/georgia-reports-lowest-number-covid-patients-in-a-month

Georgia opened up before anyone else. Wasn't this predicted to be an unmitigated disaster?  Even President Trump was mad at their Governor. As someone who is anxious to see our country return to some sense of normalcy sooner rather than later, this is good news. But how will the moral narcissists react?

Moral narcissist: A liberal who projects moral superiority to discredit or dismiss conservative views. Moral narcissism is self-aggrandizing. It requires no personal evidence of adherence to high moral standards on the part of the claimant. It is pretense.