Valpo at Loyola 8 pm 1/11 on CBS Sports Network

[VUGrad1314]

The second half comeback against SIU and this game against Loyola are no doubt indicative of two things:

1. The team is making progress

2. Matt Lottich has not lost the team as things presently stand.

HOWEVER, I (and I know many others on this board feel the same way) am at the point where simple progress isn't enough. I know we've had injuries. I know we've had transfers. I know we've had growing pains as we've tried to mesh the new pieces and figure out the chemistry and all that; but guess what: so do most other teams in this league and somehow they figure out by and large how not to constantly lose. We are in year 6 of Matt Lottich's tenure and year 5 of the MVC. Loyola came into the league in far worse shape as a program and by year 5 was beginning to flex its muscles as the dominant power in the MVC en route to an A-10 invite. I'm not saying we should strive to be in the A-10 one day I am more than happy in the MVC but it's time to either commit monetarily to the program or if we can't at least find a coach who can paper over our glaring shortcomings as a program again (such that that may even be possible). We NEED to go in a different direction. Lottich has had ample time to show that he is the right man for the job and unfortunately he has not shown the consistency necessary to inspire confidence. Every year is Groundhog Day for this program with a few exceptions.

1. Mediocre to bad OOC. Except for the one year we started out 8-0

2. Inconsistent to start out MVC play.  Except for the one year we started out 5-1

3. Improved play with some close losses. (We're somewhere between step 3 and step 4 right now)

4. A solid effort or two (and maybe even a win against a team or two we had no business beating. See: Drake last year

5. A stretch where we actually win a few games and maybe avoid Thursday.

6. Falling short of our goals as many players transfer and the whole thing crumbles to dust again. Transfers are a part of the modern game but we lose important contributors every single year. I have no doubt we're going to see another wave after this season that makes us doubt the program's stability as we have to rebuild yet again.  It's like we're coached by the itsy bitsy spider or something. We climb up towards respectability in the MVC the rain (transfers) washes us out. We get new transfers and start our same climb through the same process again. I'm tired of watching Coach Sisyphus push the boulder up the hill to see it fall down to the bottom again. It's time to start getting results or find someone who can. I don't mean half a conference season or three games in St Louis either. I mean consistently being a top 4 program at minimum. By year 4 (I think it was) when we joined the HL, we were a top 4 program in a league that wasn't significantly worse at the time than the current MVC is. I know they aren't coming through that door but there is a marked difference in coaching between the Drews and Lottich and we CAN have that caliber of coaching again one day.

We are starving for wins and success. To prove we are a good program to our new peers. To prove it wasn't a mistake for them to invite us. And it is clear Lottich can't help us in this regard at this point. This is department wide too. We've seen good improvement in other sports but we STILL don't have a SINGLE MVC team sport championship to our name in FIVE years. This fact alone is starting to really weigh on me as a fan and I know I can't be the only one bothered by this.

Yes, this is a tougher league than the one we left but Loyola eventually handled the transition. What will the excuses be if (when?) Belmont and Murray State who are coming from a worse league than the one we left mind you (remember the HL was somewhere in like the 14-16 range when we left the OVC is usually outside or around 20) come in and perform well either right out of the gate or shortly after joining? What if UIC (assuming they get an invite) marshals its considerable resources and builds a winner like Loyola did? What then? I get that we don't have the money of the Chicago schools or even of Belmont but surely we can be a better program than we've shown right? I don't even know anymore.

[wh]

Sorry WH, we didn't control the pace in the second half.  You noticed they extended their defense?  Did you noticed they high pressured and caused a lot more turnovers in the second half.  These are adjustments made by Loyola and the stats back them up. 

Don't think all of Loyola's 3 point shots were desperation prayers.  I know a big one was a set play out of a timeout. 

We can say this and we can say that.  One thing is not subjective and concrete.  Lottich seems to lose a lot of games in crunch and the losses are adding up. 

For you guys that keep coming up with excuses, Lottich's number aren't helping your arguments. 

Loyola is 12-2. They're loaded with veteran players. They were at home where they have a gazillion game winning streak. Valpo came in 8-8. We were 16 point underdogs. We started a walk-on freshman point guard in the place of a 5th year senior. After trailing the entire game, Loyola pulls a win out of their butt with a bunch of miracle 3's and you don't think Valentine got out coached? Get the name Matt Lottich out of your head and think again.

[NativeCheesehead]

Who outcoached who is completely subjective. It's a loss. Plain and simple.

[vok22]

Sorry WH, we didn't control the pace in the second half.  You noticed they extended their defense?  Did you noticed they high pressured and caused a lot more turnovers in the second half.  These are adjustments made by Loyola and the stats back them up. 

Don't think all of Loyola's 3 point shots were desperation prayers.  I know a big one was a set play out of a timeout. 

We can say this and we can say that.  One thing is not subjective and concrete.  Lottich seems to lose a lot of games in crunch and the losses are adding up. 

For you guys that keep coming up with excuses, Lottich's number aren't helping your arguments. 

Loyola is 12-2. They're loaded with veteran players. They were at home where they have a gazillion game winning streak. Valpo came in 8-8. We were 16 point underdogs. We started a walk-on freshman point guard in the place of a 5th year senior. After trailing the entire game, Loyola pulls a win out of their butt with a bunch of miracle 3's and you don't think Valentine got out coached? Get the name Matt Lottich out of your head and think again.

But WHY were we 8-8 coming in? WHY were we 16 point underdogs? It's because we have blown 5+ games that we should have won if we didn't come out flat, unmotivated, lacking the intensity we showed last night, and poorly coached. You were just as high on this team as I was before the season. Now you are using our record as an excuse why we lost. Our record shouldn't be this bad if we were well coached!!! The players on this team are better than 8-9. Also, our freshmen point guards played well, so that excuse is invalid. And they may have hit a barrage of threes in the second overtime, but they also missed a lot of threes they should have made earlier in the game.

[VUGrad1314]

Sorry WH, we didn't control the pace in the second half.  You noticed they extended their defense?  Did you noticed they high pressured and caused a lot more turnovers in the second half.  These are adjustments made by Loyola and the stats back them up. Don't think all of Loyola's 3 point shots were desperation prayers.  I know a big one was a set play out of a timeout. We can say this and we can say that.  One thing is not subjective and concrete.  Lottich seems to lose a lot of games in crunch and the losses are adding up. For you guys that keep coming up with excuses, Lottich's number aren't helping your arguments.

Loyola is 12-2. They're loaded with veteran players. They were at home where they have a gazillion game winning streak. Valpo came in 8-8. We were 16 point underdogs. We started a walk-on freshman point guard in the place of a 5th year senior. After trailing the entire game, Loyola pulls a win out of their butt with a bunch of miracle 3's and you don't think Valentine got out coached? Get the name Matt Lottich out of your head and think again.

But WHY were we 8-8 coming in? WHY were we 16 point underdogs? It's because we have blown 5+ games that we should have won if we didn't come out flat, unmotivated, lacking the intensity we showed last night, and poorly coached. You were just as high on this team as I was before the season. Now you are using our record as an excuse why we lost. Our record shouldn't be this bad if we were well coached!!! The players on this team are better than 8-9. Also, our freshmen point guards played well, so that excuse is invalid. And they may have hit a barrage of threes in the second overtime, but they also missed a lot of threes they should have made earlier in the game.

Right. Norris's second OT performance was just the law of averages at work evening things out. The difference is Loyola can still pull out wins on off nights which is what good well-coached teams do. It's what we used to be able to do back when good and well-coached were adjectives that were appropriate to describe our team and program. Now I know the latter isn't true and I am becoming increasingly skeptical of the former even though the potential for it to be true is there.


That's the problem though. It's always potential Potential Potential  If this if that and if some other thing. If we made more shots. If we rebounded better. If our defense was better. If we didn't dig such a deep hole. If we had executed better down the stretch. If we shot free throws better. If we hadn't committed so many turnovers. If we had forced more turnovers. Take your pick. All of these excuses can account for at least one loss this year and in past years as well.


The facts\results are in: Lottich recruits well every year but never gets results and never delivers at least not on a consistent basis and no amount of wishing and hoping is going to make that change. I'm tired. This era has beaten me down to where I can't even become excited by an obvious sign of progress because I know exactly how it's going to end. We've all seen this movie before.

[wh]

You guys should take your posts over to the Loyola board. They'll love you over there.

[VUGrad1314]

You guys should take your posts over to the Loyola board. They'll love you over there.

I respect you very much as a poster and I do not mean what I am about to ask as an attack in any way but I have to ask: Would you have this much grace for anyone in any profession who fails this consistently over such a long period of years other than a person who you believe is a good man of strong character and values (which Matt Lottich is obviously) who represents the institution you attended and obviously love?  I ask because I want to know if you're just naturally this optimistic  and forgiving or if there is an obvious emotional attachment that colors your perception of the state of the program? Again, I'm not asking this as an attack or anything I just seriously want to know.

[Old Timer]

Wh
We did watch the same game. We watched it from different perspectives. Not knowing Loyola's game plan and my inability to discern intricate coaching maneuvers while watching the tv broadcast, you could be very precise in your judgement. I cannot tell. We did have great intensity and were mentally involved in the competitive aspect of the game. There are many parts to coaching. I tend to focus on execution which is the result of teaching and practice. A great coach also told me that a coach has to have a "feel" for the game. This intangible might dictate changes, substitutions, and general game management. At about the 7 minute mark with a good lead one could sense Loyola picking up the defensive pressure and forcing us out of what we were doing. Something special could have been set up to get one of our bigs on the block or King on the block without Loyola help. Also after the technical and the point guard dribbling into a triple team on the sidelines, it was apparent the team needed to regroup. Finally in regulation a time out to review fundamentals. Getting the ball in bounds, MEETING all passes, and protecting the ball could have been helpful. These fundamental  things should have been worked on in practice but even great players need to be reminded and be refocused.  Hindsight is a scary thing. But if one can learn from it, it can be valuable. As far as making NBA threes, if a player is open within his range, has balance, and the green light to shoot, a good percentage are going to go in.

[Just Sayin]

According to KenPom, Valpo is 39 places behind being an average team among the 358.

[justducky]

Who outcoached who is completely subjective. It's a loss. Plain and simple.

While I continue to hold some hopes of Lottich becoming a great coach, I would not be able to give a high recommendation for any Power 5, BE, AA, MW, A-10, WC, MAC or Valley school to hire him as either a head coach replacement or upgrade.

I hate ganging up on anyone so I would love to be able to join WH in his defense of Lottich. Sorry but I can't and this season obviously needs to turn around pretty quickly.

[valpo64]

I'm with you, "wh"...some people will never be happy and will always find something to complain about...for every good or positive comment about Matt and/or the team, they will always come back with "yes, but...." followed by a negative comment or two.  I guess it goes with the territory...it is what it is.

[oklahomamick]

Yes!  WH & 64, expect negative comments when a 10 point lead is blown with 8 minutes left in the game. 

Expect negative comments when the team is below .500

Expect negative comments when you can't keep players for more than 1 year. 

Expect negative comments when the team is constantly playing Thursday play in game. 

Why are you shocked by negative comments when that stuff is going on? 

[VUGrad1314]

Please don't make me drag up our MVC record under Lottich and our overall record since that smoke and mirrors 8-0 start in 17-18... It's really depressing to have to dig through all those lost seasons and tabulate the results. I'll do it again if I have to in case anyone needs a reminder of just how bad we've been and how far we've fallen under Lottich's leadership but I really hope you don't make me do it. I know it's the same tired argument I've used many times before but it's really the only argument the Lottich skeptics need to prove their case and unfortunately it just gets stronger and stronger every year.

[Just Sayin]

I had a dream that Valpo is going to win the next six games. I saw these guys come to realize they can play with and beat any team in this conference after the Loyola game, call me 

[vok22]

I had a dream that Valpo is going to win the next six games. I saw these guys come to realize they can play with and beat any team in this conference after the Loyola game, call me 

I think I will accept your invitation to call you crazy.

[Just Sayin]

I had a dream that Valpo is going to win the next six games. I saw these guys come to realize they can play with and beat any team in this conference after the Loyola game, call me 

I think I will accept your invitation to call you crazy.