Jay Harris transferring from Valparaiso

[sectionee]

^^^^Love it^^^^ 

[vu72]

I think "churn and burn" is too harsh an analysis.  Bryce simply sits down with his players and explains their situation, what needs to improve to change that and then lets the individual make up his own mind.  I seriously doubt anyone is "forced" out as has been suggested.

How Butler handles it is a good question and hopefully haze of another of our posters can give us some insight.  Brad Stevens, while complimenting us on one of our recent wins over them, said of us "those guys are really old".  Point well taken.  We have had this discussion before.  Is it better to go after an 18 year old "All Star" or use a scholarship on a player who is older, more mature, has had the chance to learn at a big conference environment and build his body to a college level?  It's Jay Harris v. Cory Johnson or Brandon Wood or LaVonte Dority or others.

Yes, our players are "old".  But the chance for them to mature and show their college level character seems to be working.  It's not about kicking someone to the curb.  It's about allowing someone to move on to a place where they can perform as they think they can or at a school perhaps less rigorous academically or less religious, who knows.  Sitting on the bench for four years just doesn't sound like a bunch of fun particularly if you still have to work hard in practice, study on planes or buses and...you get the picture.

[chef]

A couple years ago, I mentioned to a D-1 assistant "Don't you think Garrett Butcher will leave at the end of the season? I can't see him ever getting minutes there the next couple of years." He immediately said "No. Butler has very few kids transfer out of the program." Clearly most D-1 programs force players out. That's the number one reason there's so much movement. However, Butler seems to have a different philosophy.

[zvillehaze]

Bryce simply sits down with his players and explains their situation, what needs to improve to change that and then lets the individual make up his own mind.  I seriously doubt anyone is "forced" out as has been suggested.

From what I know, this is exactly the same approach taken by Coach Stevens.  Given that, I can't explain why Butler has had one player transfer in the last 7 years and Valpo seems to average 2 to 3 per year.  Valpo's numbers certainly seem to be closer to the norm for DI schools.  With that said, it still seems like a large number of kids who choose to attend Valpo and then decide it isn't where they want to be.  Whatever the cause, it doesn't seem to be hindering the program much.

[zvillehaze]

Yes, our players are "old".  But the chance for them to mature and show their college level character seems to be working. 

This is also a good point.  A majority of Valpo's roster next year will be comprised of 22 and 23 year-olds, which is a big advantage (in terms of maturity and experience) when competing against 18 and 19 year-olds.  If my math is correct, David Chadwick will turn 24 before he ever plays a game for Valpo and will be a 25 year-old senior in '14-'15. 

It will be interesting to see if Bryce continues with this strategy going forward.  My guess is that he will as long as it keeps working.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

If my math is correct, David Chadwick will turn 24 before he ever plays a game for Valpo and will be a 25 year-old senior in '14-'15. 

Wow...your math is assuredly correct.  Usually when that happens, you figure he's a Mormon coming back from mission.

...he's just on a different kind of mission.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

With that said, it still seems like a large number of kids who choose to attend Valpo and then decide it isn't where they want to be.

Z-ville is right.  I don't think Bryce sat either Richie or Jay down and said they would not have a role, at least not the role they personally wanted.  Maybe Hrvoje, but the only one we're sure of in all this is Cameron Witt (and I'm on record not liking that).  It's not like Bryce is channeling Nick Saban--it's like Z-ville puts it.

[lowposter]

You know, the whole churn and burn might not be a bad method to go, if it is controlled correctly.  With older players, you definately receive the maturity factor.  The "free agent if graduated" rule pushes towards the older mature players.  My original thoughts on that was the difficulty of incorporating a player for only one year....however, with year round activity of players on campus, that learning curve/chemistry issue might not be as much of a factor.

I am not really flipping positions on this, as there should be some sort of loyalty attached to a program, but perhaps my views are too "old school".  The produce now or be gone will probably be a movement in the game, with all the changes in rules, etc.

lowposter

[valpopal]

Jay Harris lands at Wagner:

http://www.silive.com/colleges/index.ssf/2012/05/wagner_college_mens_basketball_27.html

[vu72]

Interesting for a couple of reasons.  First, I thought Jay picked Valpo because in part it was close to home.  Wagner is outside of New York City.  Second, he is transferring to the only other Lutheran college that plays D1.

[valpotx]

Good for him, and interesting the fanfare in which the writer speaks about Harris!  I guess we had the same high expectations out of HS. 

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Surprised that Wagner is Dajuan he picked...

[bbtds]

Interesting for a couple of reasons.  First, I thought Jay picked Valpo because in part it was close to home.  Wagner is outside of New York City.  Second, he is transferring to the only other Lutheran college that plays D1.

I wouldn't say that Valpo and Wagner are miles apart as far as types of schools but I also wouldn't say they are very similar. Valpo advertises itself as a National Lutheran University while you wouldn't notice so much that Wagner is Lutheran as much as it is part of New York City on Staten Island.

We're located in New York City, which offers an amazing wealth of experiences and entertainment. Manhattan is just a 25 minute ride away on the free Staten Island Ferry. As a Wagner student, you'll attend world-class arts performances and visit world-renowned museums; you'll cheer for the famed professional athletic teams at our doorstep, and you'll follow in the footsteps of those who came before you to make their mark on places like Wall Street and Times Square.

http://www.wagner.edu/about_wagner/

[VULB#62]

Kind of off the subject, but I understand Valpo will be playing Wagner in football in the near future.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

I bet in Chesterton he'd get quite a ribbing for transferring to Wagner...

[wh]

I bet in Chesterton he'd get quite a ribbing for transferring to Wagner...

Also on LaPorte Ave, Apostle.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

touché!

i hope he's able to honus skills at Wagner.

[hoopfan22]

Interesting quote in the comments: "Why is he transferring?? Well....he is usually the last one to practice (and late on occasion) and the first one to leave . Classes, do I really have to go? Weight room, do I really need to get bigger and stronger? I bet Coach Drew gave Jay every opportunity to become a better person and player, he refused to take advantage of it.....and mommy and daddy came to his defense. I change of scenery hopefully will get him to work and play to his ultimate potential.
Just my take on it....I may be way off base.......but I doubt it !!"

[bbtds]

touché!

i hope he's able to honus skills at Wagner.

Okay, I was as slow as Dizzy Dean on this comment. Jay should be able to eat all the burgers and eggs he wants to eat since he'll be playing his home games on Staten Island. Cholesterol will not be an issue.

Doesn't Coach look like a West Virginia coal miner in the picture above. Like he said to one of his players when they asked him what kind of bats he preferred. "Wood, son."

[LaPorteAveApostle]

well done!  I was just about to put out an APB for you before I used up all the good puns.

I guess with more PT he'll really be staten it up at Wagner.

[vu72]

Interesting for a couple of reasons.  First, I thought Jay picked Valpo because in part it was close to home.  Wagner is outside of New York City.  Second, he is transferring to the only other Lutheran college that plays D1.

I wouldn't say that Valpo and Wagner are miles apart as far as types of schools but I also wouldn't say they are very similar. Valpo advertises itself as a National Lutheran University while you wouldn't notice so much that Wagner is Lutheran as much as it is part of New York City on Staten Island.

We're located in New York City, which offers an amazing wealth of experiences and entertainment. Manhattan is just a 25 minute ride away on the free Staten Island Ferry. As a Wagner student, you'll attend world-class arts performances and visit world-renowned museums; you'll cheer for the famed professional athletic teams at our doorstep, and you'll follow in the footsteps of those who came before you to make their mark on places like Wall Street and Times Square.

http://www.wagner.edu/about_wagner/

Sad but true, some "lutheran" colleges truly hide their identity.  Look at Gettysburg some time.  You have to dig hard and long to find any reference to the fact that they are a college of the ELCA, as is Wagner.  It is just silly to try to mask your roots.  Valpo correctly states its affiliation proudly, as it should.

[lowposter]

Wagner - ribbing - Chesterton - Laporte Avenue...

Wagners in Valpo (on Laporte Ave) closed very suddenly in April.  It was our "go to place" for casual dining.

Gone, but not forgotten.  That Buffalo Chicken sandwitch on pretzel roll was the real thing. 

lowposter

[vuweathernerd]

Wagners in Valpo (on Laporte Ave) closed very suddenly in April.  It was our "go to place" for casual dining.

that's disappointing. i liked their food the few times i was there. and i got to enjoy them double - i lived on alan drive for a year, right behind them. and when the weather was nice and my windows were open, we could smell the food they were cooking, and it always made our mouths water. yum.

[LaPorteAveApostle]

Wagner - ribbing - Chesterton

Thanks for picking up on that.  My mother, if she'd heard me say that, would've been wagner finger at me for punning like that...