Enrollment numbers

[crusadermoe]

Your post seems to belong in the "Good Things at Valpo" thread. 

Going to Valpo62 and others' points:

Back to enrollment: I wonder how many applications we have received year over year due thanks to the Facebook barrage of the "Get $24,000 if you have a 3.0 GPA"   I can see the strategy in the bizarre pricing market of private education. So logically the number of applicants should broaden.

But my meritocratic mindset just hates that giveaway with "no tests required."   

[KreitzerSTL]

that giveaway with "no tests required."

Most schools - and good ones, too - are moving to test-optional. A standardized test is a barrier to applying, and so I think Valpo is wise not to require it in a drive for more applications.

[usc4valpo]

My daughter is at Rice and tests ores we're not required. I think it's a good because it forces admissions to look at the whole resume of the applicant to decide if he or she should be be accepted. In the past, too much emphasis was placed on the test score.

[vu84v2]

The VP for Enrollment and Marketing explains a bit about the enrollment strategy in the recent Torch article: http://www.valpotorch.com/news/article_e6f3a9c2-6847-11ee-b9f0-67b85d7f14f2.html

A few observatations/comments:

-While many universities are not requiring the ACT or SAT, they are also adding entry tests before students start classes. The simple reason is that far more students are not ready in specific areas like math.
-Transcripts are becoming less meaningful because there has been increased grade inflation in high schools (it has always been there, but it is much worse now).
-I know that it is only one article, but her comments point towards a very centralized approach to marketing and enrollment - and, if true, it is wrong for Valpo to be so centralized. There needs to be a personal connection with each potential student for each college...thus the approach needs to be a combination of university-level AND college-specific.

[crusadermoe]

Fair points by USC Valpo.  But Rice is a totally different animal.  I highly doubt you will see folks try to slip into Rice with really marginal abilities to do well.

Valpo has dropped a level into regional battles to snag every applicant they can find.  Warm bodies with a 3.0 are welcome. But I suppose there are some sleepers in that batch who might trip up on tests.  Good for them.

[crusadermoe]

I just read the article and was wholly unimpressed.  Are the verbs "outreach" (twice) and "be like" now verbs in a new urban dictionary. I am too depressed to inquire.

In either case I don't feel that a senior administrator like Ms. Schur should be using either verb.  If the quote is paraphrased by the Torch writer, then I am only depressed for their generation (as I "be like" expected) and have less fear of our administrators.

[valpopal]

This should help enrollment in the Nursing Program and boost interest in a new building for it:

Valparaiso University and University of Chicago Medicine Create New Student Training Program in Northwest Indiana
Oct. 17, 2023 – Valparaiso University and the University of Chicago Medicine are launching a new training program that gives future health care professionals in northwest Indiana vital, practical experience before they begin their careers. Under terms of the joint agreement between the university and the Chicago-based academic health system, students in Valparaiso University's College of Nursing and Health Professions will have priority for placement to complete required clinical, practicum, internship, fieldwork, and other experiential learning opportunities at UChicago Medicine's new 130,000-square-foot multispecialty care center and micro-hospital in Crown Point....

Through the effort, Valpo students from all College of Nursing programs may become eligible to work at UChicago Medicine's largest off-site facility when it opens in spring 2024. Students in nursing (BSN, DNP), physician assistant (MSPAS), occupational Therapy (Dr.OT, OTD), public health (BSPH, MPH), health care leadership and administration (BSHCL, MHA), health science (BSHS), and exercise science (BSExSc) will have the opportunity to complete their experiential learning requirements alongside professional UChicago Medicine staff. Other students, such as those in health sciences, health care leadership and health care administration, will work within the Crown Point center in supervised administrative roles.

UChicago Medicine's new Crown Point facility will have an eight-bed emergency department, a short-stay inpatient unit, imaging, outpatient surgery, laboratory services, medical offices and a cancer center with infusion therapy as well as radiation, medical and surgical oncology.
Some students may also do educational rotations at the University of Chicago Medical Center, UChicago Medicine's flagship campus in Chicago's Hyde Park neighborhood. All students will be required to be clinically cleared for the placement work and meet program requirements.

[covufan]

The VP for Enrollment and Marketing explains a bit about the enrollment strategy in the recent Torch article: http://www.valpotorch.com/news/article_e6f3a9c2-6847-11ee-b9f0-67b85d7f14f2.html

Title of article is "University admission rate trends up, yield goes down"

Is either of these good?  Can our admission rate get any higher?  I can accept that yield goes down, but only if we received many more applications. 

[vu84v2]

The VP for Enrollment and Marketing explains a bit about the enrollment strategy in the recent Torch article: http://www.valpotorch.com/news/article_e6f3a9c2-6847-11ee-b9f0-67b85d7f14f2.html

Title of article is "University admission rate trends up, yield goes down"

Is either of these good?  Can our admission rate get any higher?  I can accept that yield goes down, but only if we received many more applications. 

There are only three measures that the university should use to assess whether it is doing well in enrollment: new first-year student enrollment, discount rate, net transfers (or a related measure like first to second year student retention combined with transfers out). Indicators like number of applications are fine, but they are strictly indicators and should not be used to conclude that things are better/great (especially by comparing them to prior years in which the results were below expectations). Further, there are better indicators such as visits that may get "hidden" if they are below the expected number needed to achieve the enrollment goals.

[David81]

If you look at typical scattershot graphs of test scores and undergraduate academic performance, then you'll see that some schools have given standardized test scores too much weight in the admissions process.

However, I wouldn't disregard them completely, especially in the very low or very high ranges. For example: Very low test scores can help to identify likely problem areas that may be indicative of academic difficulty in college. A strong academic performance in high school can offset those concerns. On the other end, someone with very high test scores and mediocre high school performance may serve as both a yellow flag and some evidence that an applicant has the raw ability to succeed.

In other words, test scores are just one indicator of potential academic success.

The practical challenge is that the US News rankings place considerable weight on average test scores for entering classes, and so sometimes you have the rankings tail wagging the university dog.

[valpo64]

On a personal note, I am disappointed that VU does not put more effort into recruiting the Fort Wayne and Northeast Indiana market for more students.  Concordia Lutheran High in FW gets bombarded by all the "mid-west" Concordias...AnnArbor, Chicago, Wisconsin(Milwaukee) and Seward , Nebraska.  Last year was really disappointing in that there were no Valpo selections but a good number of Concordia recruits for that senior class. 

I really think Valpo is sometimes a hidden gem and the great facts and attributes of our School are not being conveyed to the junior and senior classes of high schools in this area.

[vu72]

On a personal note, I am disappointed that VU does not put more effort into recruiting the Fort Wayne and Northeast Indiana market for more students.  Concordia Lutheran High in FW gets bombarded by all the "mid-west" Concordias...AnnArbor, Chicago, Wisconsin(Milwaukee) and Seward , Nebraska.  Last year was really disappointing in that there were no Valpo selections but a good number of Concordia recruits for that senior class. 

I really think Valpo is sometimes a hidden gem and the great facts and attributes of our School are not being conveyed to the junior and senior classes of high schools in this area.

I have had communications with the VP of enrollment who assured me that a concerted effort to reach out to Lutheran high schools, particularly in the Midwest, is underway.

[78crusader]

On a personal note, I am disappointed that VU does not put more effort into recruiting the Fort Wayne and Northeast Indiana market for more students.  Concordia Lutheran High in FW gets bombarded by all the "mid-west" Concordias...AnnArbor, Chicago, Wisconsin(Milwaukee) and Seward , Nebraska.  Last year was really disappointing in that there were no Valpo selections but a good number of Concordia recruits for that senior class. 

I really think Valpo is sometimes a hidden gem and the great facts and attributes of our School are not being conveyed to the junior and senior classes of high schools in this area.

I have had communications with the VP of enrollment who assured me that a concerted effort to reach out to Lutheran high schools, particularly in the Midwest, is underway.

This is, to me anyway, the most disappointing and infuriating post ever on this board. Not because of what vu72 said (his insights and information are very much appreciated), but the fact that university vice president admits that a "concerted effort" to reach "Lutheran high schools" is now UNDERWAY. What the heck? Underway? What in the world has VU been doing the last 20 years? The answer, of course, is that the university HASN'T been making an effort to reach out to what should be a natural source of prospective students. And the results speak for themselves.

Paul

[covufan]

On a personal note, I am disappointed that VU does not put more effort into recruiting the Fort Wayne and Northeast Indiana market for more students.  Concordia Lutheran High in FW gets bombarded by all the "mid-west" Concordias...AnnArbor, Chicago, Wisconsin(Milwaukee) and Seward , Nebraska.  Last year was really disappointing in that there were no Valpo selections but a good number of Concordia recruits for that senior class. 

I really think Valpo is sometimes a hidden gem and the great facts and attributes of our School are not being conveyed to the junior and senior classes of high schools in this area.

I have had communications with the VP of enrollment who assured me that a concerted effort to reach out to Lutheran high schools, particularly in the Midwest, is underway.

This is, to me anyway, the most disappointing and infuriating post ever on this board. Not because of what vu72 said (his insights and information are very much appreciated), but the fact that university vice president admits that a "concerted effort" to reach "Lutheran high schools" is now UNDERWAY. What the heck? Underway? What in the world has VU been doing the last 20 years? The answer, of course, is that the university HASN'T been making an effort to reach out to what should be a natural source of prospective students. And the results speak for themselves.

Paul

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[historyman]

and so sometimes you have the rankings tail wagging the university dog.

And if you have 2 university dogs, and I truly mean dogs, named Beacon & Blaze, what does that wag?

[VUSupport]

The concerted effort is most likely underway because Padilla and his cabinet have been so blindly banking on the hopes of making VU an HSI. Padilla and the new. p of Enrollment and Marketing failing

[usc4valpo]

Take it easy gang on the mascots. We just need to add more money to attract creative writing majors.

[David81]

Blaming Padilla's efforts to bring in more Hispanic/Latino applicants -- a demographic wave that all schools should be looking at -- for inadequate recruiting of Lutheran-affiliated H.S. students is just the kind of zero-sum, dog-whistle kind of nonsense that is plain wrong.

It's pretty clear that VU inexplicably has been neglecting the potential Lutheran student pool for some time, and now Padilla's team is trying to do something about that.

There's no principled reason why VU cannot try to expand its own pie, and that indeed is what will happen if both of these outreach initiatives are successful.

[crusadermoe]

Agreed.  Both objectives can be managed together.  It's not a zero sum game. 

Your word "neglected" for Lutheran recruitment focus seems entirely fair and very embarrassing.  Does the enrollment staff buy into the latter? And do the faculty?  There has to be some explanation for it.

[78crusader]

if both of these outreach initiatives are successful.

This belated, renewed outreach to Lutheran high schools is going to be very hard.

In the legal world, if you take repeat clients for granted - if you don't make a consistent effort to make them feel special, that their business is not only of utmost importance but also very much appreciated and valued, they eventually go elsewhere. And they usually find a law firm they like just as well, if not better. After all, there are plenty of good law firms around, just like they are plenty of good colleges to attend.

Not just the legal world, but any business -including the business of running a private university.

VU should know this. But for some reason this philosophy got put on the back shelf. To borrow a legal term, the decision to de-emphasize Lutheran recruitment was higher education negligence. 

One can only imagine the incredulity of the Concordia colleges when they realized VU wasn't going hard after the Lutheran high schools anymore, and the glee with which they renewed their already-determined efforts to recruit these students.

(Maybe 10 years ago the alarm bell sounded for me when I learned a football-playing, high caliber Lutheran high school student in Indiana had not received a SINGLE letter, phone call - nothing, zero interest - from VU.)

So, VU has ceded this territory to others and now wants it back. This might work, but I would not bet on it. While we were sleeping the Concordias - and others - have established relationships with these high schools that will be hard to dislodge.

Paul

[valpo95]

It is not just the enrollment staff.

Historically, VU faculty and leadership had deep and longstanding ties to the LCMS. President Harre was an ordained LCMS pastor and was formerly the president of Concordia St. Paul before coming to Valpo. In 1990 or so, he hired Dr. William Karpenko to lead VU's Office of Church relations. Karpenko had previously led the DCE program at Concordia Seward for about 20 years. Between the two of them, they probably personally knew or had met more than 90% of the LCMS pastors and DCEs in the USA.

Of course, there are other Lutheran church bodies beyond the LCMS. Yet the relationships and respect afforded to people like Harre and Karpenko probably opened a lot of doors into continuing recruitment of Lutheran students from both Lutheran and non-Lutheran high schools.

Who among the VU leadership has those ties for VU as of today?

[crusadermoe]

Indeed it will be an uphill fight for those relationship reasons. You won't have the same HS guidance counselors you nurtured 20-30 years ago sit waiting with open arms.

But this annual cohort of Lutheran HS seniors is just too crucial to neglect. Yes, the term "neglect" seems fair. One might also call it dereliction of duty by Heckler. How many came to VU from those schools in 2008-2021 and what percent?   Compare that to the percent prior to Heckler.  Maybe I am wrong.

[vu84v2]

A few comments here:
-There is no reason why, if Valpo targets Lutheran high schools where the Concordias have developed an advantage, Valpo should not get a majority of the prospective students. The Concordias are not highly accredited - which ends up making a huge difference in finding a good job outside of the healthcare professions (e.g., the major companies in Milwaukee do not go to Concordia (WI) to seek and interview new graduates). If you were going to study business, for instance, my guess is that a Valpo grad would get (on average) 15% more starting salary than a student graduating from a Concordia...and that the Valpo grad has a significantly better chance of landing a job. There is so much demand in healthcare that everyone gets a job - but the better jobs are going to go to Valpo nursing students, PA students, etc. versus graduates from the Concordias.
-How split are the various synods and groups within the Lutheran faith. Do people in the Wisconsin Synod or LCMS consider those in ELCA to be Lutheran?
-The Concordias (or at least Wisconsin) require all employees to be Christian (prospective and new employees are required to state their faith).

[valpo64]

We have to start somewhere and it sounds like we have made a beginning effort to rectify the situation in the long run.  It is a shame we basically wasted a couple of decades is rebuilding the bridges to this segment of high school juniors and seniors.  The comments made about the difference in the Concordias education vs. Valpo is well taken, including both academics and athletics.  However the point is the Valpo name and all that goes with it needs to be put out there and ready to compete with the Concordias of the day.  It is very basic...WE NEED TO GET OUR SCHOOL'S NAME OUT THERE ON A REGUALR AND CONSISTENT BASIS.  It is a shame that the Fort Wayne and Northeastern IN markets, along with Michigan and  Ohio, afe not better represented in Valpo's student body demographics.  Let's hope that the University's rejuvenated recruitment  efforts will be successful.

[David81]

I do think most or all faculty are still pro-Lutheran-recruitment, at least in my sense of it. I mean, what faculty member is going to say we shouldn't try to recruit a viable source of interested students? So I don't know why the Admin and Admissions staff didn't focus on it. Maybe it wasn't a neglect of Lutherans per se, but just a neglect of all various types of sub-groups. There was just a general complacency across the board in the 2010s and early 2020s that Valpo was self-evidently good and awesome and popular, and a lot of administrative patting-ourselves-on-the-back about Valpo Excellence as if it were inevitably apparent to all. Or maybe they did drop the ball with Lutherans in a special way? Perhaps they were too hasty to take the Lutheran demographic decline projections as a roadmap and prematurely stopped trying to get them even though there still do remain Lutheran high schoolers out there. (In general, I'm always suspicious of the way that business-y administrators use metrics to inform their decisions in self-fulfilling prophecy kinds of ways; so the cynical part of me would not at all be surprised if they hired some corporate higher ed consultant with a BA in Marketing Communications who showed them graphs and told them it wasn't worth trying to recruit Lutherans, and now here we are with no Lutherans. But that's speculative.) Honestly, I'm really not sure why Valpo hasn't tried or succeeded at recruiting Lutheran students, and it may well have been simply a general neglect and malaise/self-contentment, and not a particularly anti-Lutheran neglect.

So many dopey, dunderheaded decisions in higher ed have been driven by expensive consultants who don't understand the enterprise and come with pre-fabbed, one-size-can-be-adjusted-for-all "solutions." I dearly hope that VU has not relied on these folks.

The Lutheran student recruitment thing is mystifying in any event. It's recruiting 101 to grab as much of the low-hanging fruit as you can. (Sorry to be using consultant-speak....low-hanging fruit...yikes).