2/6 - UIC @ the Pavilion

[a3uge]

But Bryce doesn't coach that way. Once a lead is safe, he takes the foot off the pedal and subs out the starters. In many games Alec only got PT in the mid 20s. That keeps the players happy and rested, but when all you see is the final score on the ESPN crawler and its Valpo by 19 (instead of by 25 or 30 as would have been the case if the starters were left in another 5 minutes) the casual observer is not that impressed.

Casual observers are deciphering a 19 point victory as not impressive from the ESPN crawler? Really? Plus that narrative isn't even reality. Every game the bench got emptied (games where Levinson-Simon played), Valpo has won by 25+.

[Valpower]

But Bryce doesn't coach that way. Once a lead is safe, he takes the foot off the pedal and subs out the starters. In many games Alec only got PT in the mid 20s. That keeps the players happy and rested, but when all you see is the final score on the ESPN crawler and its Valpo by 19 (instead of by 25 or 30 as would have been the case if the starters were left in another 5 minutes) the casual observer is not that impressed.

Casual observers are deciphering a 19 point victory as not impressive from the ESPN crawler? Really? Plus that narrative isn't even reality. Every game the bench got emptied (games where Levinson-Simon played), Valpo has won by 25+.

Plus, point margin should be considered in the context of the pace of the game.  What's more impressive, winning 99-80 or 60-41 (hint: one of them is out-scoring your opponent by nearly 46%)?

[axaguy]

A UIC guy here. If you want better seats call the UIC box office directly. They can tell you what's available closer to your area of choice. Sure the game isn't anywhere near a sell out. Ticketmaster gets a poor selection of seats to offer themselves which is what you see at their site. I think you could buy right from the box office over the phone and have seats held at will call and avoid Ticketmaster fees, too. See what your athletic office can do for you as well.......

Parking is $5 next door in multilevel lot or across the street in outdoor lot.

If you want to eat afterward without moving your car, from either lot, you can walk across the lot just south of the Pavillion to Tufano's Vernon Park Tap. Very good Italian food (know the owner) but accepts cash only....no credit cards. Will be open by 5, after the game.

We certainly have struggled this year and definitely deserve the disrespect that comes with our performance and RPI rating but are looking for fortunes to change soon..... There is danger, though, in looking past or over anyone on the schedule regardless of where we/you are. Been there/done that in a lot of sports at a lot of places.........

Safe travels to those visiting Saturday..................

[Valpower]

In terms of percentage outscored here are the best wins and worst losses so far

@ WRST	L	73	62	18%
@ 25 ORE	L	73	67	9%
@ BEL	L	85	81	5%
@ BALL	L	69	66	5%
vs MOST	W	74	45	64%
vs UIC	W	75	47	60%
@ NKU	W	71	46	54%
vs CLEV	W	77	52	48%
@ YSU	W	96	65	48%
vs IONA	W	83	58	43%
vs YSU	W	97	68	43%
@ CHS	W	71	53	34%
@ OAK	W	84	67	25%
@ DET	W	92	74	24%
vs IPFW	W	78	64	22%
vs MILW	W	68	56	21%
vs GB	W	85	70	21%
@ ORST	W	63	57	11%
@ INST	W	69	63	10%
vs BEL	W	61	57	7%
@ URI	W	58	55	5%

[historyman]

A UIC guy here. If you want better seats call the UIC box office directly. They can tell you what's available closer to your area of choice. Sure the game isn't anywhere near a sell out. Ticketmaster gets a poor selection of seats to offer themselves which is what you see at their site. I think you could buy right from the box office over the phone and have seats held at will call and avoid Ticketmaster fees, too. See what your athletic office can do for you as well.......

Parking is $5 next door in multilevel lot or across the street in outdoor lot.

If you want to eat afterward without moving your car, from either lot, you can walk across the lot just south of the Pavillion to Tufano's Vernon Park Tap. Very good Italian food (know the owner) but accepts cash only....no credit cards. Will be open by 5, after the game.

We certainly have struggled this year and definitely deserve the disrespect that comes with our performance and RPI rating but are looking for fortunes to change soon..... There is danger, though, in looking past or over anyone on the schedule regardless of where we/you are. Been there/done that in a lot of sports at a lot of places.........

Safe travels to those visiting Saturday..................

Thanks, axaguy. Have you ever heard of someone getting away without paying at the garage next to the Pavilion, as I did a few years ago? My son used to park in an alley every day just north of the Eisenhower off Racine and was never towed or never paid for parking. I guess parking luck just runs in the family. 

I could see UIC with Odiase and Dixson making a nice run at the end of the season and in the tournament as the Flames did with Harris last year. Please knock out Oakland and Detroit in that order. 

[VULB#62]

Unfortunately, it is what it is.  We have to keep winning these types of games by 25+.  Won't help our RPI, but it may translate into some positive public perception.   "Yes, our RPI has fallen because of an extremely weak bottom half of the HL, but look what we were able to do to those teams, even on the road." 

If the game at UIC is close, it kills our RPI and our public perception. 

Casual observers are deciphering a 19 point victory as not impressive from the ESPN crawler? Really? Plus that narrative isn't even reality. Every game the bench got emptied (games where Levinson-Simon played), Valpo has won by 25+.

Really.  Only piggybacking on SanityLost17's contention that, to in some way compensate for how the RPI will treat us because of the weakness of the lower half of the league, we need to ensure large victory margins for "public perception."  My reference to casual observers does not include any on this board for sure, but who can deny that a 25-30 point margin is not perceived as more of a shellacking than a 19 pointer.  Perception. That's why they mark down prices to $19.99

Plus, point margin should be considered in the context of the pace of the game.  What's more impressive, winning 99-80 or 60-41 (hint: one of them is out-scoring your opponent by nearly 46%)?

Valpower, I totally agree on margin of victory percentage. But that was not my point either.  My point is that if we left our starters in for virtually the whole game in cases where we were well ahead, we would jack up the margin percentage through the roof. Casual observers (outside of our little world) would note those blowouts (IMO) even more than a good old 19 point win.    But we don't run up scores.  That is not who we are.  So the opportunity to play with people's heads is minimal but we can still feel good about our wins -- It just might not meet SanityLost17's hope for more 25+ point wins.

[talksalot]

When the game is at hand... get our starters on the bench and out of harms way... Two Words:   "Norfolk State"  (1998-99 season, the 11/28 game...)

[a3uge]

Unfortunately, it is what it is.  We have to keep winning these types of games by 25+.  Won't help our RPI, but it may translate into some positive public perception.   "Yes, our RPI has fallen because of an extremely weak bottom half of the HL, but look what we were able to do to those teams, even on the road." 

If the game at UIC is close, it kills our RPI and our public perception. 

Casual observers are deciphering a 19 point victory as not impressive from the ESPN crawler? Really? Plus that narrative isn't even reality. Every game the bench got emptied (games where Levinson-Simon played), Valpo has won by 25+.

Really.  Only piggybacking on SanityLost17's contention that, to in some way compensate for how the RPI will treat us because of the weakness of the lower half of the league, we need to ensure large victory margins for "public perception."  My reference to casual observers does not include any on this board for sure, but who can deny that a 25-30 point margin is not perceived as more of a shellacking than a 19 pointer.  Perception. That's why they mark down prices to $19.99

Plus, point margin should be considered in the context of the pace of the game.  What's more impressive, winning 99-80 or 60-41 (hint: one of them is out-scoring your opponent by nearly 46%)?

Valpower, I totally agree on margin of victory percentage. But that was not my point either.  My point is that if we left our starters in for virtually the whole game in cases where we were well ahead, we would jack up the margin percentage through the roof. Casual observers (outside of our little world) would note those blowouts (IMO) even more than a good old 19 point win.    But we don't run up scores.  That is not who we are.  So the opportunity to play with people's heads is minimal but we can still feel good about our wins -- It just might not meet SanityLost17's hope for more 25+ point wins.

But we literally won every game under this scenario by 25+ points.

[Valpower]

Plus, point margin should be considered in the context of the pace of the game.  What's more impressive, winning 99-80 or 60-41 (hint: one of them is out-scoring your opponent by nearly 46%)?

Valpower, I totally agree on margin of victory percentage. But that was not my point either.  My point is that if we left our starters in for virtually the whole game in cases where we were well ahead, we would jack up the margin percentage through the roof. Casual observers (outside of our little world) would note those blowouts (IMO) even more than a good old 19 point win.    But we don't run up scores.  That is not who we are.  So the opportunity to play with people's heads is minimal but we can still feel good about our wins -- It just might not meet SanityLost17's hope for more 25+ point wins.

That's why I said "plus".  It was trying to add to the doubt that casual observers are deciphering a 19-point victory as not impressive.

[HC]

Casual observers aren't seeding the tournament field.

[a3uge]

Casual observers aren't seeding the tournament field.

Casual observers don't keep track of mid major's point differentials from game to game either. Apparently our fans don't either, considering the amount of times we've won by 25+.

[agibson]

But Bryce doesn't coach that way. Once a lead is safe, he takes the foot off the pedal and subs out the starters. In many games Alec only got PT in the mid 20s.

It's true.  Bryce certainly has no obvious inclination to pad the box score.  Hopefully it pays off in terms of a healthy team, a bench that stays sharp, etc.  But, I'll confess to wondering if it's the right PR move.

A bit of consolation for me this year has been that the second string often enough manages to stretch the lead.  And the third string often manages to at least hold on to it (and sometimes the opponents also empty their bench at the end).

[justducky]

When the game is at hand... get our starters on the bench and out of harms way... Two Words:   "Norfolk State"  (1998-99 season, the 11/28 game...)

Yes but blink of the eye and couple seasons later Nuness was almost back to pre injury shape.  That has been a long time ago but was it a blowout game when it happened?

[vusupporter]

I know it's simplistic, but let's just look at margin based on when Peters gets taken out for the final time vs. the final score:

UIC - Subs out with 4:04 to go, leading by 27; final, win by 28
@Oakland - SPubs out with 45 seconds to go, leading by 20; final, win by 17 (Oakland hits 3 on final possession)
@Detroit - Subs out with 42 seconds to go, leading by 20; final, win by 18 (Detroit scores on final possession)
Milwaukee - In game at final whistle, win by 12
Green Bay - Subs out with 9 seconds to go, leading by 15; final, win by 15
@YSU - Subs out with 18:39 to go, leading by 27; final, win by 31
@NKU - Subs out with 3:26 to go, leading by 21; final, win by 25
CSU - Subs out with 5:00 to go, leading by 22; final, win by 25
YSU - Subs out with 10:02 to go, leading by 28; final, win by 29

All five times Peters has been taken out with significant time to play, the team has increased its lead by the end of the game.

[talksalot]

That has been a long time ago but was it a blowout game when it happened?

We were up 20 with about 3 minutes to play (Chef can correct me on that)... we won the game by 20.

[Valpower]

I know it's simplistic, but let's just look at margin based on when Peters gets taken out for the final time vs. the final score:

UIC - Subs out with 4:04 to go, leading by 27; final, win by 28
@Oakland - SPubs out with 45 seconds to go, leading by 20; final, win by 17 (Oakland hits 3 on final possession)
@Detroit - Subs out with 42 seconds to go, leading by 20; final, win by 18 (Detroit scores on final possession)
Milwaukee - In game at final whistle, win by 12
Green Bay - Subs out with 9 seconds to go, leading by 15; final, win by 15
@YSU - Subs out with 18:39 to go, leading by 27; final, win by 31
@NKU - Subs out with 3:26 to go, leading by 21; final, win by 25
CSU - Subs out with 5:00 to go, leading by 22; final, win by 25
YSU - Subs out with 10:02 to go, leading by 28; final, win by 29

All five times Peters has been taken out with significant time to play, the team has increased its lead by the end of the game.

Man, we really don't need that Peters guy.

[bbtds]

But Bryce doesn't coach that way. Once a lead is safe, he takes the foot off the pedal and subs out the starters. In many games Alec only got PT in the mid 20s. That keeps the players happy and rested, but when all you see is the final score on the ESPN crawler and its Valpo by 19 (instead of by 25 or 30 as would have been the case if the starters were left in another 5 minutes) the casual observer is not that impressed.

Only I don't think point differential has suffered at all due to putting in any of our subs. Maybe 4 or 5 points at the most. It's just not true that Valpo has suffered due to the play of their bench.

EDIT: Okay, now I see that others have refuted this premise already.

[bbtds]

Casual observers aren't seeding the tournament field.

What are casual observers and are there really many casual observers of any of the mid-majors and some of the majors who are lower on the high majors list?

[axaguy]

Thanks, axaguy. Have you ever heard of someone getting away without paying at the garage next to the Pavilion, as I did a few years ago? My son used to park in an alley every day just north of the Eisenhower off Racine and was never towed or never paid for parking. I guess parking luck just runs in the family. 

I could see UIC with Odiase and Dixson making a nice run at the end of the season and in the tournament as the Flames did with Harris last year. Please knock out Oakland and Detroit in that order. 
[/quote]


Don't think you'll find free parking next door, today. The $5 isn't worth the hassle of trying to beat and risk a ticket or tow/impound. If parking free is a personal challenge you could cruise Racine Ave a bit south for on the street spaces or try the street just north of the expressway and last, the Target lot especially if you keep a Target bag on your front seat and don't mind a bit of a walk. Though impound lots are not inexpensive nor easily located or customer friendly places......for $5 avoidance. Good luck.....

On the game stuff maybe we can surprise even ourselves with another win or two or three before it's all over this year......

[VULB#62]

But Bryce doesn't coach that way. Once a lead is safe, he takes the foot off the pedal and subs out the starters. In many games Alec only got PT in the mid 20s. That keeps the players happy and rested, but when all you see is the final score on the ESPN crawler and its Valpo by 19 (instead of by 25 or 30 as would have been the case if the starters were left in another 5 minutes) the casual observer is not that impressed.

Only I don't think point differential has suffered at all due to putting in any of our subs. Maybe 4 or 5 points at the most. It's just not true that Valpo has suffered due to the play of their bench.

EDIT: Okay, now I see that others have refuted this premise already.

Point differential suffered?  Of course not, given how we play and how we are coached.  Am I complaining? Absolutely not.  I like and appreciate how Bryce uses his players. I personally would not change anything. But if we had a different coach who does everything he can to create a media star by playing him 36+ minutes every game and leaves the other starters in until the last minute or two, our current differentials would, in all probability, be even greater than they already are is all I'm saying. I'm glad we are not that kind of program.

[hailcrusaders]

I'm just going to appreciate the fact that we're arguing about how many points we should win a conference road game by. We won't get that luxury every year.

[bbtds]

But Bryce doesn't coach that way. Once a lead is safe, he takes the foot off the pedal and subs out the starters. In many games Alec only got PT in the mid 20s. That keeps the players happy and rested, but when all you see is the final score on the ESPN crawler and its Valpo by 19 (instead of by 25 or 30 as would have been the case if the starters were left in another 5 minutes) the casual observer is not that impressed.

Only I don't think point differential has suffered at all due to putting in any of our subs. Maybe 4 or 5 points at the most. It's just not true that Valpo has suffered due to the play of their bench.

EDIT: Okay, now I see that others have refuted this premise already.

Point differential suffered?  Of course not, given how we play and how we are coached.  Am I complaining? Absolutely not.  I like and appreciate how Bryce uses his players. I personally would not change anything. But if we had a different coach who does everything he can to create a media star by playing him 36+ minutes every game and leaves the other starters in until the last minute or two, our current differentials would, in all probability, be even greater than they already are is all I'm saying. I'm glad we are not that kind of program.

I simply don't believe it's as much as a one point difference. We could start almost the whole bench up to Max and still win by the same margin.

[covufan]

Valpo  81
UIC     51

[agibson]

I simply don't believe it's as much as a one point difference. We could start almost the whole bench up to Max and still win by the same margin.

I've not crunched the numbers.  But there's _got_ to be a point per minute differential. Right?  Surely for Alec, at least?

Some of these games it's the _end_ of the bench, and surely we could stretch a lead, if we wanted to, by keeping Alec in, rather than Levingston-Simon.

But, I'm definitely impressed that the end of our bench can hold a lead.  And that the "second" squad can stretch one.

[agibson]

If you want to eat afterward without moving your car, from either lot, you can walk across the lot just south of the Pavillion to Tufano's Vernon Park Tap. Very good Italian food (know the owner) but accepts cash only....no credit cards. Will be open by 5, after the game.

Nice!  I had no idea that's where Little Italy was.

But... looks like Tufano's is closed this week?

For future reference, despite the name, I assume it's a restaurant, not just a bar?  Families are OK? (featured on Diner's Drive-Ins and Dives, even)

I was thinking maybe Chinatown... (anybody have a favorite? I've only dipped my toes in)