Facilities

[bbtds]

I would imagine just about every University in the country borrows money to fund some projects.

I wonder if University of Phoenix has to borrow money.

Trump University gets their money from their very loyal lawyers.

[ml2]

Get a free account at munios.com and you can download PDFs of bond information (prepared for prospective investors) for Valpo, or any other university you'd like to compare it to. These documents are densely written in legal and financial terms, so you will need some background in one or both areas to fully understand everything in them, but the breadth of financial and institutional information available in them is stunning. There are files available for Valpo from 2007, 2010, 2014 and 2017 which each show a snapshot of where the university was at those times, and what money was borrowed for.

[mj]

I found this online. Gives a pretty good picture of the financial status of things. The rates we're paying to borrow money and where that money went.

http://www.govwiki.info/pdfs/Non-Profit/IN%20The%20Lutheran%20University%20Association%20Inc.%20-%20Valparaiso%20University%202016.pdf

[usc4valpo]

Valpo to an extent is analogous to what what Mike Ditka said about George Halas:"He throws nickels like manhole covers." We need to quit being overly conservative fiscally regarding this or it will bite us in the future. Prospective selected students these days demand quality facilities.

[vu72]

I found this online. Gives a pretty good picture of the financial status of things. The rates we're paying to borrow money and where that money went.

http://www.govwiki.info/pdfs/Non-Profit/IN%20The%20Lutheran%20University%20Association%20Inc.%20-%20Valparaiso%20University%202016.pdf

Thanks for finding this.  Very interesting.  Here are some highlights:

The "unfunded" tuition number went up to 62.5 million from 57.4.  This is the "discount" given to students to be competitive with similar schools.  Next, Valpo had "Operating Expenses in Excess of Income" in both years--$2.6 million in 2016 and $3.5 million in 2015.

Next is the income from Endowment--$10.7 million in 2016 and $10.3 million in 2015.  This is from unrestricted dollars.

Now, perhaps this will clear up some things about the need for endowment.  If we could add $200 million in unrestricted endowment, at a 5% payout that would double the payout and perhaps allow the University to be able to invest in much needed infrastructure--including athletic facilities.

Remember, much of the funds "raised" via the current drive are not in the bank and are pledges most likely from estates of folks in their 40's, 50's, 60's etc.  Perhaps all will come to fruition in 20 or 30 years.

[VULB#62]

Valpo to an extent is analogous to what what Mike Ditka said about George Halas:"He throws nickels like manhole covers." We need to quit being overly conservative fiscally regarding this or it will bite us in the future. Prospective selected students these days demand quality facilities.

If you are paying $50K annually (rack rate before financial aid/loans) for an education, the "extras" mean a lot.  Often those extras are the difference makers in deciding to attend one school versus another.

[usc4valpo]

In life, happiness can be incremental when you pay that extra dollar for that slice of cheese on your burger.

[FieldGoodie05]

In life, happiness can be incremental when you pay that extra dollar for that slice of cheese on your burger.

Are you arguing for spending like the US gov't?  Or are you arguing we shouldn't load up on debt?

Like Confucius, your statement is open ended (probably by design).

[VU2014]

I don't think there is any way the University funds ARC renovations with debt. Same goes for the Student Rec Center. It's blatantly clear that it won't get done without a generous donor(s). Apparently they are working on a donor for the Student Rec Center which would be a positive step.

I don't think we're going to get a significant ARC reno for many MANY years. Decades. That's just the sense I get. But you never know. Maybe a future alum who strikes it rich and has a passion for Valpo Basketball like all of us would feel compelled to donate towards ARC renovations and take the program to another level. That's basically what happened with Loyola.

If I ever win the lotto you guys can bet I'd be down for the cause 

[vu72]

I don't think there is any way the University funds ARC renovations with debt. Same goes for the Student Rec Center. It's blatantly clear that it won't get done without a generous donor(s). Apparently they are working on a donor for the Student Rec Center which would be a positive step.

I don't think we're going to get a significant ARC reno for many MANY years. Decades. That's just the sense I get. But you never know. Maybe a future alum who strikes it rich and has a passion for Valpo Basketball like all of us would feel compelled to donate towards ARC renovations and take the program to another level. That's basically what happened with Loyola.

If I ever win the lotto you guys can bet I'd be down for the cause 

I don't think there is any way the University funds ARC renovations with debt. Same goes for the Student Rec Center. It's blatantly clear that it won't get done without a generous donor(s). Apparently they are working on a donor for the Student Rec Center which would be a positive step.

I don't think we're going to get a significant ARC reno for many MANY years. Decades. That's just the sense I get. But you never know. Maybe a future alum who strikes it rich and has a passion for Valpo Basketball like all of us would feel compelled to donate towards ARC renovations and take the program to another level. That's basically what happened with Loyola.

If I ever win the lotto you guys can bet I'd be down for the cause 

Come on Man.  You are really stretching it when you say that the renovations to Gentile caused Loyola's success.  The renovations were completed following the 2010-2011 season.  Since that time Loyola has had a winning in conference record Eight or Sweet Sixteen, think again.Players win games, not toilets.

I I would also be making a visit to Valpo should I win the lottery! 

[VU2014]

I didn't say the gentile reno is the sole reason but it certainly helped with recruiting. The reno was completed in the winter of 2012. Obviously moving up to the MVC helped also with recruiting. Players win games and facilities help sell many recruits.

[vufan75]

I don't think there is any way the University funds ARC renovations with debt. Same goes for the Student Rec Center. It's blatantly clear that it won't get done without a generous donor(s). Apparently they are working on a donor for the Student Rec Center which would be a positive step.

I don't think we're going to get a significant ARC reno for many MANY years. Decades. That's just the sense I get. But you never know. Maybe a future alum who strikes it rich and has a passion for Valpo Basketball like all of us would feel compelled to donate towards ARC renovations and take the program to another level. That's basically what happened with Loyola.

If I ever win the lotto you guys can bet I'd be down for the cause 

I don't think there is any way the University funds ARC renovations with debt. Same goes for the Student Rec Center. It's blatantly clear that it won't get done without a generous donor(s). Apparently they are working on a donor for the Student Rec Center which would be a positive step.

I don't think we're going to get a significant ARC reno for many MANY years. Decades. That's just the sense I get. But you never know. Maybe a future alum who strikes it rich and has a passion for Valpo Basketball like all of us would feel compelled to donate towards ARC renovations and take the program to another level. That's basically what happened with Loyola.

If I ever win the lotto you guys can bet I'd be down for the cause 

Come on Man.  You are really stretching it when you say that the renovations to Gentile caused Loyola's success.  The renovations were completed following the 2010-2011 season.  Since that time Loyola has had a winning in conference record Eight or Sweet Sixteen, think again.Players win games, not toilets.

I I would also be making a visit to Valpo should I win the lottery! 

Not that facilities alone make good teams, but plenty of MBB recruits around the country in today's world do seem to say that the facilities they saw on their visits were great and show a commitment to athletics by a schools administration.

At Valpo I don't think we can use facilities as one of our primary assets/features during recruiting visits for MBB. "The Shot" and our "Cinderella status" have played out pretty much by now. Valpo needs to sell our values, players, history of success in the last two decades, developing pro players, our coaching staff, conference affiliation. Lots of good things to sell.
We do a very good job at that...but IMO we need to step it up and bring our facilities up to the current MVC levels since we recruit against most MVC schools along with other good mid-majors.

I believe the good folks in the Athletics Dept. know this, and the BOD
and Administration can always find another project of greater importance. Why move up the conference ladder from
Mid-Con to HL to MVC over a decade without a clear plan (including funding) and timetable to improve the ARC which has been dated for awhile now. To me that just makes no sense. I love Valpo MBB and want us to use it as the "front porch" in marketing the school as many other  universities do, privates included.

Raising $$ for the endowment is great and certainly needed, but for once can Athletics and the flagship sport of MBB become a priority to invest in improved facilities!

I'm passionate about Valpo and athletics. Wish I had the serious money to make a difference.
#GoValpo #MVCHoops #ValpointheValley

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[EddieCabot]

Come on Man.  You are really stretching it when you say that the renovations to Gentile caused Loyola's success.  The renovations were completed following the 2010-2011 season.  Since that time Loyola has had a winning in conference record Eight or Sweet Sixteen, think again.Players win games, not toilets.

I I would also be making a visit to Valpo should I win the lottery! 

To vu72's point, Valpo has won a bunch of games over the last 10 years while playing in facilities many on this board call "subpar", while there are lots of schools with new bright shiny buildings that can't even get to an NCAA tournament.  Players and coaching wins games. 

Valpo has done a great job of identifying players who are more focused on a school with winning tradition, great coaching and a track record of developing pros vs those who are focused on material things like facilities.

[valpo64]

Good call, Eddie

[bigmosmithfan1]

Valpo has won a bunch of games over the last 10 years while playing in facilities many on this board call "subpar", while there are lots of schools with new bright shiny buildings that can't even get to an NCAA tournament.  Players and coaching wins games. 

And that situation is no longer analagous. We won lots of games in a significantly worse conference, where we had one of the two or three best basketball pedigrees of any team in the league, and where our facility was no worse than middle of the pack (and if they had a better facility, they were likely a commuter school). We're now in a conference with lots of excellent programs, several of which have historical success to top ours (and others match it at worst), larger student populations on-campus, larger fanbases, and every single league opponent has exponentially better facilities than we do.

If the university takes the attitude above, that "well, we won lots of games with our crappy gym in the Mid-Con and Horizon League, so obviously that will follow us to the Valley," they're making a grave error of comparing apples to oranges. The level of recruits we will need to be competitive long-term in the Valley will most *definitely* evaluate us on our facilities, because that is what they'll come to expect when touring other schools.

We use the days of beating up on Youngstown, UIC and IUPUI as our yardstick moving forward at our peril.

[vu72]

The level of recruits we will need to be competitive long-term in the Valley will most *definitely* evaluate us on our facilities, because that is what they'll come to expect when touring other schools.

You may be right, may be wrong.  We have had two recruiting years so far.  Two of our three from last year left because they weren't as good as our Horizon League level recruits.  Our next class including a First Team All-State Illinois player and a Canadian who was good enough to be selected to play in Canada's version of the McDonald's All America game.  We shall see.

As for facilities being what they expect, there must be a bunch of crappy facilities out there. So far, there are 533 D1 players seeking a new team.  Could it be more than facilities? Maybe something like. say, playing time? 

[VULB#62]

Valpo has won a bunch of games over the last 10 years while playing in facilities many on this board call "subpar", while there are lots of schools with new bright shiny buildings that can't even get to an NCAA tournament.  Players and coaching wins games. 

And that situation is no longer analagous. We won lots of games in a significantly worse conference, where we had one of the two or three best basketball pedigrees of any team in the league, and where our facility was no worse than middle of the pack (and if they had a better facility, they were likely a commuter school). We're now in a conference with lots of excellent programs, several of which have historical success to top ours (and others match it at worst), larger student populations on-campus, larger fanbases, and every single league opponent has exponentially better facilities than we do[/i].

If the university takes the attitude above, that "well, we won lots of games with our crappy gym in the Mid-Con and Horizon League, so obviously that will follow us to the Valley," they're making a grave error of comparing apples to oranges. The level of recruits we will need to be competitive long-term in the Valley will most *definitely* evaluate us on our facilities, because that is what they'll come to expect when touring other schools.

We use the days of beating up on Youngstown, UIC and IUPUI as our yardstick moving forward at our peril.

And I might add larger alumni bases, with deeper pockets, that are very attuned to athletics in general and MBB in particular.  If we had this type of alumni support, it would certainly make sense to rely on gifts to fund facilities upgrades.  But we do not.

Yet we still must compete for players out of HS as well as transfers.  Unfortunately, it is not a level playing field for Valpo when it comes to competing for those better prospects. As Bigmo suggests, prospects will do a comparison and, all other things being equal (including playing time), just cannot check off that facilities box for Valpo.  The result? He chooses another MVC program with a) a winning tradition, b) good coaching and c) better facilities.

Oh, and now that we are in a conference that is #8 in the country, the type of prospects we need to go after to be competitive within the conference are even more basketball-focused than the kids we used to go after.  In my opinion, we will find it harder and harder to attract the caliber of player we need using the "great education you get that prepares you for the future" card, because more and more of our prospects see the future as basketball,  not being a brain surgeon.

[vu72]

Valpo has won a bunch of games over the last 10 years while playing in facilities many on this board call "subpar", while there are lots of schools with new bright shiny buildings that can't even get to an NCAA tournament.  Players and coaching wins games. 

And that situation is no longer analagous. We won lots of games in a significantly worse conference, where we had one of the two or three best basketball pedigrees of any team in the league, and where our facility was no worse than middle of the pack (and if they had a better facility, they were likely a commuter school). We're now in a conference with lots of excellent programs, several of which have historical success to top ours (and others match it at worst), larger student populations on-campus, larger fanbases, and every single league opponent has exponentially better facilities than we do[/i].

If the university takes the attitude above, that "well, we won lots of games with our crappy gym in the Mid-Con and Horizon League, so obviously that will follow us to the Valley," they're making a grave error of comparing apples to oranges. The level of recruits we will need to be competitive long-term in the Valley will most *definitely* evaluate us on our facilities, because that is what they'll come to expect when touring other schools.

We use the days of beating up on Youngstown, UIC and IUPUI as our yardstick moving forward at our peril.

And I might add larger alumni bases, with deeper pockets, that are very attuned to athletics in general and MBB in particular.  If we had this type of alumni support, it would certainly make sense to rely on gifts to fund facilities upgrades.  But we do not. 

Yet we still must compete for players out of HS as well as transfers.  Unfortunately, it is not a level playing field for Valpo when it comes to competing for those better prospects. As Bigmo suggests, prospects will do a comparison and, all other things being equal (including playing time), just cannot check off that facilities box for Valpo.  The result? He chooses another MVC program with a) a winning tradition, b) good coaching and c) better facilities.

I think this might be a good topic for Union Street Hoops, interviewing previous players about the impact "facilities" had on their decision.  I think we fans may have a different view from players as to what facilities we have in mind.  Many times players have said that playing at the ARC in front of a packed house is "electric".  I wonder if playing in one of The Valley's larger venues would have the same impact.  So we have a new locker room, an air-conditioned dedicated practice facility as well as uncomfortable chairs, limited bathrooms and limited food options in the ARC.  Do those limitations impact a players decision?  I wonder and just don't know.  Would love to hear from players.

I'm guessing location is a big factor for some.  Being close to Chicago for others (particularly Foreign players). Christian atmosphere for others, Coaches and playing style for others and of course playing time for most.  Just curious whether or not the concerns voiced here are the same ones the athletes might have.  Remember, our crummy Horizon league recruits regularly beat Missouri Valley teams prior to last year.

[usc4valpo]

Goodie, seriously. I am not suggesting that Valpo puts itself in deep debt. I am saying that Valpo should take a calculated risk once in a while and avoid being too conservative fiscally.

Also, are there product or services that are a black hole financially and are not adding value to Valpo's vision? If so, brutal as it may sound, consider bagging them.

[FieldGoodie05]

Goodie, seriously. I am not suggesting that Valpo puts itself in deep debt. I am saying that Valpo should take a calculated risk once in a while and avoid being too conservative fiscally.

Also, are there product or services that are a black hole financially and are not adding value to Valpo's vision? If so, brutal as it may sound, consider bagging them.

Thanks for clarifying, I'm not a philosopher so your eloquent statement had too many possible meanings.  Cheese is good though, in moderation!

[vu72]

I am saying that Valpo should take a calculated risk

And I wonder whether or not they already have.  If Alan Harre left Valpo with zero debt then the board has added  nearly 200 million of debt to the books since President Heckler took office.  Even at 3%, 30 year terms, that's 10 million a year in debt service.  I don't think even the most avid basketball fans would suggest that a new ARC was more important then a new science building, a new library or a new union.  But then again, if we are going down, why not throw another 100 million on the fire!  Seriously, our credit rating was at risk not long ago and adding more debt may seriously impact that, I just don't know.

[VULB#62]

Not a new a ARC.  Just a physically improved ARC.  Not $8 million total gut and rebuild like the Gentile Center.  $1million to $2 million for new seating and some cosmetic improvements including improved concession locations.  As you point out, the ARC can be electriv "when it is packed."  But the place needs rejuvenation badly.  When we check out some of the recruit highlights, the HS gyms some of them play in are much better lit and have newer seating. That helps attract fans to fill seats and even empty on a practice day (cuz they don't always use Hilltop for practice) or half empty during a game, it shows a prospect visible investment in the program's future.

I think this might be a good topic for Union Street Hoops, interviewing previous players about the impact "facilities" had on their decision.  I think we fans may have a different view from players as to what facilities we have in mind.  Many times players have said that playing at the ARC in front of a packed house is "electric".  I wonder if playing in one of The Valley's larger venues would have the same impact.  So we have a new locker room, an air-conditioned dedicated practice facility as well as uncomfortable chairs, limited bathrooms and limited food options in the ARC.  Do those limitations impact a players decision?  I wonder and just don't know.  Would love to hear from players.

I'm guessing location is a big factor for some.  Being close to Chicago for others (particularly Foreign players). Christian atmosphere for others, Coaches and playing style for others and of course playing time for most.  Just curious whether or not the concerns voiced here are the same ones the athletes might have.  Remember, our crummy Horizon league recruits regularly beat Missouri Valley teams prior to last year.

[usc4valpo]

our HS arena is nicer than the ARC, and I live in Iowa!

I never said a new arena - you guys are going to extremes. But an ARC upgrade would make much sense - cripe, like the rest of the schools in the MVC, start by installing AC!

[FieldGoodie05]

our HS arena is nicer than the ARC, and I live in Iowa!

I never said a new arena - you guys are going to extremes. But an ARC upgrade would make much sense - cripe, like the rest of the schools in the MVC, start by installing AC!

Good lord, you Hoosiers are insane.  I now see why you keep calling the ARC a high school gym.  (Though I respectfully disagree but for the retractable bleachers)

Indiana has 14 of 16 largest high school gyms in America!

Note:  Football stadiums appears that Texas is far less committed than you Hoosiers.  Only 5 of 13 biggest football stadiums in America.

Ha, though I'd be willing to speculate the average stadium size in TX is a good deal ahead of their competition?!?!

[usc4valpo]

Hoosiers? West Des Moines Valley isn't facing Mishawaka Penn anytime soon.